Ford F-150 Triton 5.4 problems

[TO AWSUM]

My girlfriend works for a great mechanic and she said they had another F-150 in today with the 5.4 Triton engine that needs the plugs changed out. She said she always feels so bad for the customers when she has to explain that the plugs are prone to break in the heads and that it will be an additional hour per broken plug to extract. She also said the newer Ford vehicles with the direct injection that goes straight into the cylinders has problems. The design causes excessive carbon build up in the engine since it by-passes the plugs. There are TSBs online that every 6,000 - 12,000 miles you have to tear down half of the engine to clean out the carbon. Ford will not warranty this work. How wrong is that? I bet the salesmen don't divulge this info when selling the vehicles.

 

[fjpikul]

I put 180K on my 2004 F150 Lariat with the triton. Changed plugs at 100K as per service. Only one broke, but they have an extraction tool and there was no extra charge for the time. Thing ran great all that time and was cheap to maintain. I have no complaints. I only got rid of it to get a new Escape with better mileage.

 

[ChipBeck]

I've got over 200,000 miles on the 5.4 in my Expedition with a ton of heavy trailer towing. Never had a plug break and my truck runs like brand new.

Chip

 

[BlackICE]

Interesting way to remove plugs.

The plugs on 3 valve heads are a poor design and can be fouled on the long unthreaded section that is exposed to combustion gases. Some cars have plugs that are supposed to last 100K miles. I wouldn't go that long on these heads! :ack



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIQevez-DG0

 

[BlackICE]

More info
http://www.gonzostoolbox.com/KnowledgeFolder/3valvesparkplugremoval.html

 

[jcthorne]

Not sure what TSB you are referring to on the DI engines. ALL ecoboost engines are DI. We have owned 2 now and been very pleased with both. Current one is in wifes Escape, a 2.0EB that now has 45000 on it. Peppy little CUV and has been very reliable. I get all the TSBs on our vehicles via subscription and there are NO TSBs for the 2.0EB that "very 6,000 - 12,000 miles you have to tear down half of the engine to clean out the carbon" Only maintenance to date has been oil and filter changes, tire rotation. Even the OEM Continental tires still have great tread left.

Have no idea what you are trying to say "since it by-passes the plugs"

As far as the diffeculty with the extended plugs, that applies to all the 3 valve modular engines. 4.6, 5.4 and 6.8. Its a long known problem but the fix is not that bad usually and the plugs are not due for replacement until 100k miles.

Don't get me started on the cost of maintainance my next door neighbor endures with her VW SUV and the much higher cost of fuel.

 

[Xcentric]

Is the procedure for clearing carbon build-up any different now than it was 50 years ago?

I remember taking my older brother's '65 Mustang 289 out to blow out the carbon. Came home running like a six. It was. Two plugs with carbon bridging the electrodes. I had to repeat the blow out/clean plugs procedure several more times. :lol

 

[dbk]

Not sure what TSB you are referring to on the DI engines. ALL ecoboost engines are DI.

Have no idea what you are trying to say "since it by-passes the plugs"

I think he was trying to say that because the fuel get sprayed right in the cylinder there's no chance for fuel to wash any junk off the valve stems or seats.

All DI engines have buildup problems to varying degrees, but I've never seen any evidence of it being a real problem on the ecoboost GTDI motors. Certainly nothing about 6k-12k mile tear downs. After building 2 million of the things in the past 5 years, you'd be hearing that everywhere. I've had three with no issues, but I've never stuck them on a dyno to see if they had lost power. Lots of 50,000+ mile GTDI cars out there, and I really couldn't find any info on major buildup on Google.

BMWs had crazy buildup and they'd blast it out with walnut shells. VW/Audi cars too, but they'd use chemicals or a wire brush to get the stuff out. Audi cars seemed especially susceptible to losing a bunch of power in a pretty short period of time. Everything is moving DI so dealing with some level of carbon buildup over time is gonna be the price of admission until they figure it out.

 

[TO AWSUM]

When you consider 2 million were built, the number she sees is probably insignificant. I imagine what appears major to this mechanic shop is the fact that they don't see plugs break with any other engine/plug designs so it stands out when they see it. I think DBK is probably correct about not being able to wash and/or cool the valve stems/seats with this design. Again, if 2M were built, the number this one mechanic sees is probably insignificant. You have to wonder though how many other independent mechanics have seen these problems and haven't reported them to FORD. BlackICE's posts show that others have also experienced this problem -- similar to the FGT gauge problems I suppose. Some FGT owners have had a lot of problems with gauges, but the majority haven't experienced any problems (yet???). LOL nervously.

 

[twobjshelbys]

My best friend is a mechanic and he dreads one of those coming into his shop. On one he had I think they had to extract 3 plugs. On another none.

There are new plugs that don't have the problem. You might be well to change them early.

This is such a big problem that the extraction kit is a cottage industry in its own right. In the early days I think it was only Mac Tools (or one of them like that) that had the kit. Now I think even Car Quest has one.

 

[TO AWSUM]

I get all the TSBs on our vehicles via subscription and there are NO TSBs for the 2.0EB that "very 6,000 - 12,000 miles you have to tear down half of the engine to clean out the carbon"

JC you are correct about no TSBs and tear down schedule. She misunderstood her mechanic. The vehicle they were working on had 150,000 miles on the plugs that broke. Her mechanic said if owners change out the plugs at around 60-70,000 miles they normally don't have a problem removing them.

Her mechanic is going to try the impact wrench removal procedure next time on the high mileage Tritons and thanked BlackICE for the info. He was wondering what you experts would recommend for the best carbon removal tool/procedure. He has 30+ years experience as a mechanic and has gone to quite a few schools and refresher training. They know there are several types available. They use the type that you suck in the chemical & let it soak for 3-4 hours & then blow it out. Is there something better?