First 4.5L running on a GT!!!!


FBA said:
Looks great! Do they sell an intake kit for the GT that I can buy? I have been trying to get one from M2K but they're just stroking and jerking.
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Yes we offer these but they are custom made. We prefer to have your GT to build it, but could probably accommodate making a system without your car. We want to tweak the design slightly and so we chose not to build a jig off of Chris's GT. There is no issues with Chris's intake... we just want to move the holes for the filter tubes back a few inches for better access. Typical design progression from the first "one off" custom part. The next one we do will solidify the design, so at the end of it, we'll build a fixture for the ability of producing them without a car.

Please PM for details.

Cheers
 
Top notch build from FM as usual! Fabrication and install looks great.



FBA said:
Looks great! Do they sell an intake kit for the GT that I can buy? I have been trying to get one from M2K but they're just stroking and jerking.
Click to expand...

Sorry EE it is not my intention to derail your thread, your GT is awesome. Steve I know you have spoken with Blake about an air intake for your GT. We have not had the opportunity to perfect the intake as the one off we did for another customer had a funny spot we had to tune around which worked but was not ideal to sell to the public. I can assure you we are working on it and when it is perfect we will gladly sell you one. Until then, it is unfortunate but we will not sell a product that is not right until we can stand behind it. A lot of folks will take your money and sell you something before it's ready but that's not M2K's business philosophy. I think stroking and jerking is a bit undo when we have been completely honest with you and have refused to take any sort of money or deposit from you until we know the intake is 100% correct. If you have any further questions or concerns please PM me or cotact Blake as to not derail EE's thread.

Thanks.
Mark H.
281-346-8114 office
 
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Extreem Exotics said:
After completing the Dyno we also did a hard street test checking the fuel and air numbers which turned out to be inline. As far as long term speeds we haven't had the opportunity due to tge recent completion of the project. I do know 3rd gear at 60mph will fishtail. So I'm taking my time with the 746lbs of torque!
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True... though the 3rd gear spin was 40F ambient outside temps and stone cold tires... 2nd gear will require caution as all higher hp GTs require and 3rd gear on good, warm tires on decent pavement should be fine... and fun! :)
 
MarkH said:
Top notch build from FM as usual! Fabrication and install looks great.
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Thanks Mark!
 
The workmanship looks absolutely first rate!! Great job, gentlemen!!
 
looks good.

get a set of ET Street 2's for the rear.
 
I would love to know how these killer large-displacement blower builds would stack up against a twin turbo build. I suppose for the mile-events a twin turbo would still reign supreme (all else being equal), but for my purposes (just having fun on the street and the dragstrip), these latest blower builds seem pretty ideal!
 
Mullet said:
looks good.

get a set of ET Street 2's for the rear.
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:thumbsup
Dead on, can't be the MT ET Street for traction. Huge difference!
 
SFSDFGT said:
I would love to know how these killer large-displacement blower builds would stack up against a twin turbo build. I suppose for the mile-events a twin turbo would still reign supreme (all else being equal)
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A properly sized and built turbo system will always produce more power and torque at the higher rpms, where we would run at the mile, over a screw system. Turbos are just more efficient compressors, generating less heat and less parasitic loss.

For example... Chris's GT in it's current configuration with turbos would have probably made somewhere right around 1050-1100 whp on race gas.

I'm a huge fan of turbos, but for a street car with a standard H pattern transmission.. the initial lag coupled with lag on each gear change kills the fun and performance of the GT on the street in my opinion. There are fixes for this boost lag with turbos... a sequential gear set for the stock transmission cases will fix the lag on gear changes keeping the boost up. Anti-lag or nitrous will fix the initial turbo lag, but you will never get rid of the anemic, light throttle tip in when playing in and out of traffic on the highway. The turbo engine is basically a NA motor when the Turbos aren't up.

Another "fix" is the compound system. Turbos blowing into the screw. This picks up the turbo lag but at the cost of less power up top than a straight turbo only system. It is more of a compromise between a turbo or a SC system but it probably fills the void for many.


SFSDFGT said:
for my purposes (just having fun on the street and the dragstrip), these latest blower builds seem pretty ideal!
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I agree... I personally wouldn't want a turbo GT street car until I was trying to attain more than about 1600-1700whp. This is why we designed and built FUBAR's system with the big screw capable of about 2000hp. Even conventional big screw SC systems will make out to 1500whp on a mod motor. The only real downsides for a Screw vs Turbo at the same whp is more heat... but we already have components that combat that, like our larger 10gal intercooler water tanks that can take ice, intake hot water bypass kits that get the hot water out of the intake manifold, and external intercoolers that handle the increased heat much better... The upsides of the screw is 0 lag with almost instant throttle response and tons of torque with a huge powerband. Very difficult to beat the fun factor and will require a GT with far more power to outrun it because of the torque.

Cheers
 
Maybe I missed it, did you do anything with the crank snout? Like a second key way?
 
We considered it but decided not to.
 
2112 said:
Maybe I missed it, did you do anything with the crank snout? Like a second key way?
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Nope... FUBAR's GT has almost 40k miles on the stock single keyway with a 4.0L making about 800whp... and almost every mile of it was at redline banging through the gears up and down... Mark's been to a lot of track days, lots of highway play, TX miles, runs through Mexico etc... When his motor was torn down to build it up, the stock key and key slot looked fabulous. No signs of stress or excessive wear.

As most know, the only really nice solution for the double key is to pull the motor and the crank and add a second key way. At that point, our opinion is that you should just go ahead and go to a billet crank and build the motor at that point...

I know that some are drilling between the crank and damper and installing a hardened pin while still in the car... probably fine, but I'm not personally a fan of this approach... especially as I haven't personally seen a crank key failure yet, nor pictures of one... just people discussing it. That and the fact that many will be hard pressed to run their GT for as long and hard as Mark has, and he had no issues... this led us to the decision to not mess with it.
 
21-22 lbs on pump gas - does the larger volume SC allow you to lower boost levels with the same amount of hp & torque?

Ed
 
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Hi Ed,
We're running 25# right now. I believe if we were to lower the boost the torque and horsepower would be lowered as well.
I will let Shawn with FM chime in on this one.
 
MoTeC Magic said:
FUBAR's GT has almost 40k miles on the stock single keyway with a 4.0L making about 800whp... No signs of stress or excessive wear.
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For those of us running a 4.0L Whipple, that's a very comforting data point.
 
MoTeC Magic said:
Nope...I haven't personally seen a crank key failure yet, nor pictures of one... just people discussing it.
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I guess I have only read about too.
 
Ed Sims said:
21-22 lbs on pump gas - does the larger volume SC allow you to lower boost levels with the same amount of hp & torque?

Ed
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Considering Chris doesn't have headers...
I would think the system's numbers would be close to the same as what we got at 21-22 psi WITHOUT headers if at 19-20 psi WITH good headers.
 
Extreem Exotics said:
Hi Ed,
We're running 25# right now. I believe if we were to lower the boost the torque and horsepower would be lowered as well.
I will let Shawn with FM chime in on this one.
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We're 24-25 max right now right at redline (7000rpm)... the 4.5L in conjunction with our intake really "holds it's head up" (flows more air at higher RPM) better than the 4.0L. The boost kept climbing as RPM increased where the 4.0L and stock airbox will stall out and boost drops slightly.

The other thing is we were using an auto-meter gauge for boost pressure readings and not a liquid filled gauge. It was fluttering as non-liquid filled gauges do so it's quite possible we're really only at 23/24 ish psi... if it actually made 25psi it was just barely knocking on the 25psi line.

25 psi is my limit for pump gas on these motors... I've run 25 psi on up to 10:1 compression on pump with a lot of success. I won't go any higher on pump 93 but I would have loved to go higher on race fuel. The plan was to give Chris something that he could run either fuel without having to mess with the pulley... just the tune file swap.

As most know, the fuel pumps are pretty much done at this point. I wouldn't call them "maxed out" but they are pretty damn close. We can probably eke out another 50-75 whp for headers but any more than that and more will have to be done with the fuel system to get much more out of it with a screw.
 
Waldo said:
For those of us running a 4.0L Whipple, that's a very comforting data point.
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Yep... obviously each motor is different and assembly or material quality from part to part may differ... but Mark has been a pretty good test bed... Few drive a GT as hard as he has for as many miles... one of the reasons I really like working with Mark... he'll test the stuff you build! lol :)
 
MarkH said:
Top notch build from FM as usual! Fabrication and install looks great.


Sorry EE it is not my intention to derail your thread, your GT is awesome. Steve I know you have spoken with Blake about an air intake for your GT. We have not had the opportunity to perfect the intake as the one off we did for another customer had a funny spot we had to tune around which worked but was not ideal to sell to the public. I can assure you we are working on it and when it is perfect we will gladly sell you one. Until then, it is unfortunate but we will not sell a product that is not right until we can stand behind it. A lot of folks will take your money and sell you something before it's ready but that's not M2K's business philosophy. I think stroking and jerking is a bit undo when we have been completely honest with you and have refused to take any sort of money or deposit from you until we know the intake is 100% correct. If you have any further questions or concerns please PM me or cotact Blake as to not derail EE's thread.

Thanks.
Mark H.
281-346-8114 office
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That is great to hear. Thank you very much!!
 
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