That would be cool although there are so many track configurations that comparison with other car times doesn't work anymore. I'm thinking we could take Saint Ho's NGT there?
Ed
Faster At Le Mans: Race Car or Street Car?
- Thread starter STORMCAT
- Start date
That would be cool although there are so many track configurations that comparison with other car times doesn't work anymore. I'm thinking we could take Saint Ho's NGT there?
Ed
KennethClay
GT Owner
I agree. And with (approx) 650hp vs 450hp, the power difference is pretty substantial--it's not like 25 or 50hp. I think it would be closer than folks think...
cobra498
GT Owner
A fully developed race car against a street car that is essentially tuned for all different conditions a customer might encounter? I would bet money on the race car any day!
Apollo
GT Owner
Not to take anything away from the NFGT, But I doubt it would be able to turn times close to the race car.
In this video, Dirk says the grip in the race car is double. With much more grip you can carry so much more speed out of turns and down the straights even if down on power. At COTA, most supercars driven really well are going to be maxing out around a 2:15. The GT race cars were turning around 2:03. I spoke with Joey Hand at COTA before the race and he said the Ford GTs were at a disadvantage at COTA because of BOP and they had a hard time accelerating off of the many slow turns at COTA. At a track like Le Mans, they can keep speed much better. Given that a high HP supercar has this advantage at COTA, the race GT is almost 15 seconds a lap faster than most of the best supercar times posted. I feel that unless the NFGT had race tires on and other peformance mods, the lap difference would be easily double digit per lap at LeMans. :cheers
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3gjZhJ-ovo
In this video, Dirk says the grip in the race car is double. With much more grip you can carry so much more speed out of turns and down the straights even if down on power. At COTA, most supercars driven really well are going to be maxing out around a 2:15. The GT race cars were turning around 2:03. I spoke with Joey Hand at COTA before the race and he said the Ford GTs were at a disadvantage at COTA because of BOP and they had a hard time accelerating off of the many slow turns at COTA. At a track like Le Mans, they can keep speed much better. Given that a high HP supercar has this advantage at COTA, the race GT is almost 15 seconds a lap faster than most of the best supercar times posted. I feel that unless the NFGT had race tires on and other peformance mods, the lap difference would be easily double digit per lap at LeMans. :cheers
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3gjZhJ-ovo
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I'm going the other way,, COTA & Lemans are so different.. Much more room at Le Mans to let the higher power lower aero drag car roll.. It would be fun to see...
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ENZO BTR
GT Owner
:agree:
That's all I'm saying.
Well, and this. Regardless of the time differential between race and street car, I would LOVE to see the same test with the other cars in the NFGT's class. They likely wouldn't take the challenge, but no matter the result between race and street GT lap times, it would be fun to say, "Okay, now you guys go" and see the response.
Crickets I'm guessing. Which would still be a great PR/marketing opp.
"Ford claims 2017 GT is ultimate race car for the street. Waits for competition to prove them wrong." :biggrin
That's all I'm saying.
Well, and this. Regardless of the time differential between race and street car, I would LOVE to see the same test with the other cars in the NFGT's class. They likely wouldn't take the challenge, but no matter the result between race and street GT lap times, it would be fun to say, "Okay, now you guys go" and see the response.
Crickets I'm guessing. Which would still be a great PR/marketing opp.
"Ford claims 2017 GT is ultimate race car for the street. Waits for competition to prove them wrong." :biggrin
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timcantwell
Le Mans 2010 Sponsor * Moderator
Ooooooh! Yah! What a great comparison. Someone needs to run this test. I know that My Ferrari 360 Challenge car is actually a tad slower than my 360 Challenge Stadale around Fiorano. It would be interesting to see how close the GT race and street cars are.
Howard
GT Owner
Eventually the car magazines will get around to comparison testing. Maybe not between the race car and the NFGT, but between other contemporary supercars.
Howard
Howard
Nafod
GT Owner
LeMans is a very long high speed track. Very few corners for the race car to take advantage of it's downforce, and while it probably is in a low downforce setup, the BoP limits the true potential of the car. Watching the interview with some of the drivers last year, they mentioned how focused they needed to be to due to the long straight's in the middle of the night.
At this track, I think a comp NFGT would be very close if not faster. Any other track with shorter straights and more turns- race car.
It would be great to see an unlimited GT race car out on the track, but I think its times would have it mixing it up with the next higher class. Cant have that!
Great post Brian:thumbsup
At this track, I think a comp NFGT would be very close if not faster. Any other track with shorter straights and more turns- race car.
It would be great to see an unlimited GT race car out on the track, but I think its times would have it mixing it up with the next higher class. Cant have that!
Great post Brian:thumbsup
soroush
Ford Gt Owner
- Aug 8, 2007
- 5,256
could you imagine the implications if Ford does this and it proves the street car is in fact faster than the race car all be it for only a lap or two.
I can't ever imagine this happening before.... wonder what it would say about a street car that is faster than its racer counterpart!
w.a.nelson
GT Owner
Don't think you have to worry about answering that question.
They call it a race car for a reason.
They call it a race car for a reason.
This was an interesting discussion awhile back and first posted up by Stormcat. I think everyone's been a little handicapped in answering because many of the details/specifications of the NFGT street car have been slow in becoming public.
A few posts ago, Stormcat speculated;
Not sure what you had in mind, Stormcat, but I think the weight significantly favors the race car. By my back of napkin calcs, the BoP'd GT with a full load of fuel would weigh in at around 2900lbs? That's about 500 lbs lighter than what we now know the street car weighs. Accelerating, cornering, and braking with a 500lb "penalty" is gonna take a lot of mojo! With the realization that it is largely a conceptual exercise because of all of the variables, I think the race car would handily whoop the street car.
A better question may be how is the NFGT gonna stack up track times against the competition. At 3400 lbs, it is a couple of hundred pounds heavier than the C6 Z06 and the C7 Grand Sport (arguably chevy's best track car) is within spitting distance of the GT's weight. Now, realistically, no one is likely cross shopping a GT and a Vette - but hey, they do compete in the same class! Step up to stiffer competition - say the current offerings from Mclaren and put an equally skilled (preferably the same) driver in each car, it is minimally going to be a very good/revealing comparison.
A few posts ago, Stormcat speculated;
Not sure what you had in mind, Stormcat, but I think the weight significantly favors the race car. By my back of napkin calcs, the BoP'd GT with a full load of fuel would weigh in at around 2900lbs? That's about 500 lbs lighter than what we now know the street car weighs. Accelerating, cornering, and braking with a 500lb "penalty" is gonna take a lot of mojo! With the realization that it is largely a conceptual exercise because of all of the variables, I think the race car would handily whoop the street car.
A better question may be how is the NFGT gonna stack up track times against the competition. At 3400 lbs, it is a couple of hundred pounds heavier than the C6 Z06 and the C7 Grand Sport (arguably chevy's best track car) is within spitting distance of the GT's weight. Now, realistically, no one is likely cross shopping a GT and a Vette - but hey, they do compete in the same class! Step up to stiffer competition - say the current offerings from Mclaren and put an equally skilled (preferably the same) driver in each car, it is minimally going to be a very good/revealing comparison.
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Sinovac
GT Owner
It wouldn't surprise me, nor would it bother me, that the GT is slower than it's competition. The car was built to win the Big Race, which it did. We get the street version of the race car, warts and all. There are many homologation cars I'd take in a heartbeat over faster cars. The fact that this one is a Ford GT is icing on the cake.
Xcentric
GT Owner
BoP handicapped ~150hp, no? Active aero vs. fixed, carbon wheels vs. alloy. It would be interesting, especially on a high speed course. With street car allowed racing tires.
I'd like to see BoP vs. no-BoP race cars. How much are they really handicapped?
I'd like to see BoP vs. no-BoP race cars. How much are they really handicapped?
Sinovac
GT Owner
A bunch. The 3.5 Ecoboost in the Daytona Prototypes was making about 600HP+ in race trim. This power in the IMSA/WEC cars would be insane.
Except for fuel economy, Ford REALLY did a great job on the 3.5L EB as well as the more recent smaller sister, the 2.7L. I would estimate that it will be a very reliable powerplant for the GT and probably has capacity to produce more than it does in stock trim. The question would be the capacity of the downstream drivetrain components. If anything like the 05-06 cars, there's a whole lot of headroom with these components.
For the record one of the race car drivers told me personally when they filmed the competition Coupe and the race car at Sebring they were neck-and-neck up to about 150.. then they ran out of room...
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NJS
GT Owner
Love to see it. But no way the street car is faster with the weight and downforce advantage of the race car. I also think the race car probably can package wider tires -- less steering lock required up front.