Excess gear whine from transaxle

[Beez]

My efforts to confirm that the Dallas dealer used the wrong fluid 3 years have hit a snag. The fluid on the receipt is listed as Ford # XT-4-QGL, but that fluid is no longer available. It has been replaced by Ford # XT-M5-QS.

I tried scouring the internet to find a source to buy a quart of the old QGL fluid thinking someone would have some lying around, but to no avail. So I bought the new M5-QS hoping it would have the same chemical composition. I sent new samples of the XT-M5-QS, the correct for FGT XT-75W90-QGT, and the used oil to Blackstone Labs.

Results came back showing 3 different mineral profiles, with the used oil not being a great match to either of the new samples. So unless I can find some NOS Ford # XT-4-QGL to buy and test somewhere, it has become harder to demonstrate that is what was put in there.

At least the car and its whining transaxle got me safely and merrily to the Rally and back home. I am glad I took the chance and attended.

 

[analogdesigner]

Beez,

Try this link on Amazon:

https://www.amazon.com/Genuine-Ford-Fluid-XT-4-QGL-75W-90/dp/B001H1I5Q2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1503981915&sr=8-1&keywords=XT-4-QGL

Double check the part number before you order it!
Good luck, Jay (949) 412-8889

My efforts to confirm that the Dallas dealer used the wrong fluid 3 years have hit a snag. The fluid on the receipt is listed as Ford # XT-4-QGL, but that fluid is no longer available. It has been replaced by Ford # XT-M5-QS.

I tried scouring the internet to find a source to buy a quart of the old QGL fluid thinking someone would have some lying around, but to no avail. So I bought the new M5-QS hoping it would have the same chemical composition. I sent new samples of the XT-M5-QS, the correct for FGT XT-75W90-QGT, and the used oil to Blackstone Labs.

Results came back showing 3 different mineral profiles, with the used oil not being a great match to either of the new samples. So unless I can find some NOS Ford # XT-4-QGL to buy and test somewhere, it has become harder to demonstrate that is what was put in there.

At least the car and its whining transaxle got me safely and merrily to the Rally and back home. I am glad I took the chance and attended.

 

[Beez]

Double check the part number before you order it!
Good luck, Jay

Thx Jay, that does picture the right stuff! Somehow i didn't turn up that link when I searched Amazon 2 weeks ago. Ordered and we'll see if they swap it out or ship exactly as pictured.

 

[Beez]

Beez,

Try this link on Amazon:

https://www.amazon.com/Genuine-Ford-Fluid-XT-4-QGL-75W-90/dp/B001H1I5Q2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1503981915&sr=8-1&keywords=XT-4-QGL

well, fubar. Turned out to be a misleading ad, they just sent me the unwanted replacement fluid instead of what the ad title and picture show.

 

[analogdesigner]

Beez,

Sorry to hear this. I will check with a friend that may have some. Give me until tomorrow. Jay

well, fubar. Turned out to be a misleading ad, they just sent me the unwanted replacement fluid instead of what the ad title and picture show.

 

[analogdesigner]

Found some XT-4-QGL oil

Beez,

I found some in Dubai, United Arab Emirates. This was the original link that I had found: https://www.desertcart.ae/products/...xt-4-qgl-sae-75w-90-api-gl-4-gear-oil-1-quart

You would need to figure out how to get it shipped to you and maybe a member can assist. Keep us posted, and good luck, Jay
Here is the email that I received:

Thank you for your interest.

Sure, our products are genuine and authentic.

The item is available with our international merchant and the current price of the item is AED 187.0.

We have delivery only within UAE and Kingdom of Saudia Arabia.

Please let me know if you need anything else. I'll be glad to assist you.

Have a nice day.


Sincerely,
Khuram
Customer experience
The DesertCart™ team - SERVICE is our top priority.
Dubai, United Arab Emirates
Tel: 04 2951516
http://www.desertcart.ae

 

[Kayvan]

Am I missing something?

Isnt proving the mineral profile of "used oil" is not the same as the correct FORD GT recommended XT-75W90-QGT profile the only test that matters

Getting an expert to state in writing not adhering to recommended lubricant will result in damage with Ford's lubricant "Fact sheet" attached should do it.

Either way, without their outlined step 2 (Ford Technician must confirm transaxle has a problem), the claim might not get started. Having two facts (invoice and and Ford Tech report, with lab result as supporting data) will go further than 3 unknowns.

 

[Beez]

It has taken a long 9 months to work through this problem, but it is with great pleasure today that I start some thread updates that have a happy ending:banana

First, another thanks to Chip for telling me to go to the Utah Rally despite the gear whine. I had a memorably wonderful time, and the gear whine was not even one iota worse after adding 1700 miles and a full track day : )

On the topic of what might have caused the ring/pinion gear whine, and might have it been due to a wrong fluid used. Last year when I was still in touch with the TX Ford dealer about the fluid used, I wasn't ready to publicly point out that although the used fluid analysis wasn't a great match with the sample of correct product, it tested much closer to the make-up of the correct fluid, than it did to the wrong fluid that was available to test. Also, the service manager emphasized that the tech that did the work was very experienced with these cars and had serviced countless FGTs, making it difficult for him to believe his tech would not have been fully aware of the unique fluid need. Perhaps he used the right fluid, but data got entered wrong.

Opinions from several people with automotive and engineering expertise as to whether the wrong fluid could have caused the problem ranged from "maybe, who knows" to "almost certainly not." Of course the bottom line is I'll never know for certain, but when I consider that the "wrong fluid" was, like the correct fluid, a 75/90W synthetic gear oil, differing only in possible additives, and in use for only 1000 easy miles, I've settled in the "almost certainly not" camp.

Reading back through the thread today, this remark from Fubar stands out:

......I have seen at least 3 GT transmissions come through my mechanic's shop with pinion gear teeth that are damaged. I have heard all sorts of speculation on the cause but it doesn't change the fact.

My ring and pinion gear teeth came out rough and had abnormal wear. I'm sure all these other transaxles didn't have the wrong fluid in them. Add my experience to the same list as these others - bad ring/pinion of unknown causality.

Full inspection of my transaxle found no other parts bad, and nothing to explain a cause. Seems to me Ricardo simply put out some parts that had QC issues.

 

[Beez]

In the prior pages you will note that our member B.M.F. offered to see if he could actually repair my transaxle, rather than replace it entirely with a new unit. I could find no one else in the country able to offer such a repair. I very much favored repair over replace, to maintain a numbers-matching car in regards to such a major component. Greatly reduced cost was a nice secondary consideration.

Once I was focused on repair rather than replace, then the whole dealer-that-changed-the-fluid thing became a moot point.

So last Christmas I journeyed to the gray farmlands of rural Minnesota to meet one Dan Schoneck. Checked out his operation, looked him in the eye, shook his hand, and decided Dan was the Man to take this project to the Promised Land. Shipped the car out later on.

And he did it! The car is back home, and back to it's pristine, problem-free, no gear-whine condition. I could not be happier! I believe that in the years ahead many other FGT owners will discover what a valuable member of our community Dan is.:cheers

Brian

 

[Art138]

If they took pics of the damaged pinion gear and ring if would be useful for you to post.

 

[2112]

In the prior pages you will note that our member B.M.F. offered to see if he could actually repair my transaxle, rather than replace it entirely with a new unit. I could find no one else in the country able to offer such a repair. I very much favored repair over replace, to maintain a numbers-matching car in regards to such a major component. Greatly reduced cost was a nice secondary consideration.

Once I was focused on repair rather than replace, then the whole dealer-that-changed-the-fluid thing became a moot point.

So last Christmas I journeyed to the gray farmlands of rural Minnesota to meet one Dan Schoneck. Checked out his operation, looked him in the eye, shook his hand, and decided Dan was the Man to take this project to the Promised Land. Shipped the car out later on.

And he did it! The car is back home, and back to it's pristine, problem-free, no gear-whine condition. I could not be happier! I believe that in the years ahead many other FGT owners will discover what a valuable member of our community Dan is.:cheers

Brian

Can you please give us a synopsis of what was done?

 

[B.M.F.]

If they took pics of the damaged pinion gear and ring if would be useful for you to post.

He has his original ring and pinion. It was very weird as it had a sharp edge to the top side of the ring gear on the drive side and wear all the way to the bottom of the gear groove. The gears were definitely worn for some odd reason..

I also have about 13 transaxles now for parts and for rebuildable units.

 

[B.M.F.]

Can you please give us a synopsis of what was done?

Replaced the ring and pinion. Inspected the rest of the transaxle for any other possible issues or wear.

 

[2112]

Replaced the ring and pinion. Inspected the rest of the transaxle for any other possible issues or wear.

Stock Ratio? Are Non-stock Ratios still available?

 

[nota4re]

B.M.F. - totally awesome! You are the man!

 

[Xcentric]

Dan, Totally cool. Cheers to both you and Beez.

 

[DakotaGT]

Fantastic! Nice work, Dan.

 

[Jim]

Awesome job Dan!

 

[Nafod]

Great story and outcome Beez. Glad to hear there is a resource available as our cars get older.

Bruce

 

[Kingman]

Replaced the ring and pinion. Inspected the rest of the transaxle for any other possible issues or wear.

A hint of B.M.F.'s 'Grocery Getter' quals - http://www.mustangandfords.com/news/mmfp-120214-ford-gt-dan-schoneck/ :thumbsup