Customer Satisfaction Program 07B49

[pauleddy]

Kendall:
A great post...thanks!
The photo's show an obvious "thickness" difference in the two washers. For us Lay-People, why did Ford opt for a thicker, yet counter-sunk washer, rather than replicating what Acufab has done? And what would be the merits of this Ford design (or not) over Acufab's?
My car goes to Hef on the 8th and I intend to have Jason's team install Acufab, even though I have and will retain as spares the Ford kit.
Paul

 

[Empty Pockets]

For us Lay-People, why did Ford opt for a thicker, yet counter-sunk washer, rather than replicating what Acufab has done?
Paul

'May have something to do with the origional washers 'warping' or 'cupping' or whatever term describes what they did.

I seem to recall part of Accufab's 'thing' was HARDER washers...as well as "king kong" bolts.

 

[Indy GT]

Paul,
Good question. I will volunteer my thoughts although I am not so sure of the design evolution of the washer as I am about the bolts.

The early (I believe silver in color) washers were noted to have a perminent cup or "set" when the team started looking at the returned failed hardware. This was unexpected. I summarize hardness tests led to the conclusion the washers were not properly heat treated (increases washer strength), bent or cupped under initial bolt load during the torquing procedure and led to subsequent bolt load relaxation.

Typical bolted flange design is to specify as high a bolt preload as possible (within the material limits of the bolt but usually 90% of TYS, although some fasteners are torque-to-yield which thus exceed TYS) with the objective to never allow the bolt load to relax. Flanges with little or no preload are predisposed to failure with the flange sustaining anything more than a constant load. Consideration must also be given to the relative stiffnesses of the mating flanges and considerations for thermal expansion. This drove the early focus to an inferior washer. Thus the first fix was a stronger (heat treated) washer and the same bolts. Obviously as failures continued, this was not the correct answer and the team went back-to-the-drawing board to actually determine the "root cause" of the failure. This is what takes TIME.

The installed bolt head clearance with the CV is minimal and though not shown in Kendall's pictures I belive the ARP bolt heads (from the bolt bearing surface to the top of the head) are slightly longer than the OEM bolts. I believe the clearance is important to maintain and thus the OEM kit counter-sinks the bolts into a new even thicker and stronger washer to maintain clearance. It is my guess that a "new" washer design was already under way when the second evolution black unit washer was found to again be failing bolts. The team did their due dilligence, determined the hydrogen embrittlement problem with the bolt, sourced a new bolt to remove the problem and went with the third generation thick washer even though the bolt (not the washer) was found to be the root cause.

At least that's what I think happened. (And I do not work for Ford, thus just opining.)

 

[fjpikul]

Hey Indy, do you do differential equations for fun? I have a few Fourier transforms you can chew on. Your buddy.

 

[ChipBeck]

Bravo

Kendall & Bill,

Outstanding posts. Great information. Thanks for your time and efforts.

Chip

 

[STORMCAT]

Thanks for posting the pics. That's the first I've seen of the new Ford kit.

The new super thick Ford washer is interesting. I like the Accufab bolts better because of the shoulder at the head. When you cut threads that high up on the bolt you reduce the total diameter and reduce it's strength just below the head and that's where you see the most stress.
So if you want to have maximum metal at the stress points the best combo would be the Ford super thick washer and the Accufab/ ARP inner bolts.

 

[BlackICE]

So if you want to have maximum metal at the stress points the best combo would be the Ford super thick washer and the Accufab/ ARP inner bolts.

I was thinking the same thing, but you might have to cut the ARP bolts a little shorter.

 

[STORMCAT]

I was thinking the same thing, but you might have to cut the ARP bolts a little shorter.

I did the Accufab kits on both my cars but I think I can get the dealer to give me two of the Ford kits and write it off under warranty. That way I can check them out. And if the Accufab bolts should ever let go I could just get some of the ARP bolts and use the Ford washers.
If I recall the ARP bolt has a little flange to it or may be it just appeared that way because of the 12 pt design? I'm wondering if it would fit inside the recessed Ford washer without any mods? Anyway it's great to see Ford step up to the plate to address the issue. After reading Mad IN NC's post I really do think it's just a matter of time before the originals let go..

 

[Empty Pockets]

So if you want to have maximum metal at the stress points the best combo would be the Ford super thick washer and the Accufab/ ARP inner bolts.

'Funny! I just suggested the very same thing to a fellow in Colorado yesterday! (But it does appear from the photos that the ARP's would have to be shaved a wee bit shorter.)

 

[STORMCAT]

'Funny! I just suggested the very same thing to a fellow in Colorado yesterday! (But it does appear from the photos that the ARP's would have to be shaved a wee bit shorter.)

Great mind think a like.. And no I'm not going to bust your chops about your bolts not seeing any wear....:biggrin
Can I be the first on the list if you ever decide to let her go?? I know she'll still be a virgin ride.. And I'll take good care of her I promise...:wink

 

[dbk]

I'm merging this thread...like the other 434 thousand other ones. Dobbs, you're killin me.

 

[timcantwell]

Thanks for the detailed analysis Kendall.

 

[jaxgt]

Sorry if a repost, but if you haven't done so already:

I just received a $400 refund from Ford in the mail yesterday. I went to my local Ford dealer a few weeks ago and gave him a copy of my receipts for purchasing and having installed the Accufab bolts (about $400 total). It took about 3 weeks, but they refunded me the whole amount. Also gave me a set of Ford bolts to hold onto. A nice experience at Duval Ford, Jacksonville.

 

[AtomicGT]

I had an excellent encounter with my dealer on the bolt replacement ckit. Received the notice, made the appointment, went in, work done, no problems, very nice tech explained everything, none of my bolts were broken and my seal was tight. Could not have been better. Ford has treated me very well.

Buerge Ford WLA

 

[griffbl]

Recall Post Mortem

My Car, which has 2500 miles, and easy ones at that, had the bolts fail last July....Ford replaced them under warranty....When the recall came out, I went back in for the Replacement, and TWO OF THE BOLTS WERE SHEARED, and had to be tapped for removal......I am sure Everyone has had this done, but if not, You are at risk....

Cheers,

Griffbl

 

[timcantwell]

Dodged the Bullet!

Saturday cleared up, so we drove my 2005 White car and 2006 Yellow car to the dealer to get the half-shaft bolts replaced, as we are transporting both cars to the new place in Arizona later this week. The dealer began work on the yellow car and found that all four of the primary (inside) half shaft bolts (two on each side) were broken. Yikes! We drove the car four miles from my warehouse to the dealer on friction alone! We are lucky it didn't pull loose.

 

[Gulf GT]

Someone's watching over you. Still love that yellow bar, you've done a great job with it.

 

[timcantwell]

Someone's watching over you. Still love that yellow bar, you've done a great job with it.

Thanks! I'll have it at the rally in Vegas for closer inspection.

 

[drof gt]

I went to the dealership today for the recall. It took 4 hours for it to be performed. They said that one of the bolts was damaged. I just thought I'd share.

 

[06fordgt]

Reimbursement for halfshaft bolts 07B49

Bony DBk I am not sure if this should be asked in the other thread so I leave it to you guys to decide.

The issue is many of us here had the problem with the half shaft bolts fixed before the programme came out, for peace of mind or already broken bolts.
What is the process to collect from Ford for the cost that owners already paid to do the initial repair? :confused Ford should cover the cost as they have now acknowledeged it is a defect.
Is it a seperate process for the US vs Canada?
Any assisstance is appreciated.:cheers