Competition Belt attach points
- Thread starter Craig
- Start date
canibl
GT Owner
I've installed a 5-point Sparco racing harness for both passenger and driver. The screws behind the seats are removed and in their place there goes a bolt kit for the shoulder belts. The lap belts mount at the same location as the stock ones on the seat. Just unscrew the original belts from the seat and use another bolt kit to attach the lap belts. There's no drilling or funky stuff. It's all very easy. I believe there's a thread with picts on here that talks about all of this. Also, if you'd like to have a 6-point, I believe you may have to drill the floor deck right in front of the seat in order to bolt in a bracket that will sustain the extra belt. Good luck
BlackICE
GT Owner
It sound like you have a 4 point setup. 5 points would be harder than a 6 point. The submarine belt in a 6 point can be a Y or inverted V shape attaching to the front seat rail bolts. In a 5 point the submarine belt would attach to the floor below the middle of the seat. You would have to drill a hole.
BlackICE
BlackICE
Gentlemen, with all due respect, you are really putting yourself in a LOT more danger by adding 4 and 5-point harnesses in a vehicle if you do this BEFORE adding a rollcage. This is not my conjecture or hypothesis, it is a well-known fact.
The belts may look very cool on the street and they may even hold you more firmly in position on the track. However, in an unforseen roll-over situation, if you get any roof collapse at all, you are dead. Period. Admittedly, the GT has better structural integrity than many other cars but it it is still not enough to add a harness in without first adding the cage.
There are plenty of really sad stories with kids in their Civics, Mustangs, Integras, etc. adding harness systems and then being killed in a roll-over situation from a collapsed roof. Ironically, your chances for survival in one of these situations with a stock over-one-shoulder belt is better because your body has somewhere to go. With a restraint system that holds you upright, your spine is crushed in a roll-over and your are dead.
Think about it.
The belts may look very cool on the street and they may even hold you more firmly in position on the track. However, in an unforseen roll-over situation, if you get any roof collapse at all, you are dead. Period. Admittedly, the GT has better structural integrity than many other cars but it it is still not enough to add a harness in without first adding the cage.
There are plenty of really sad stories with kids in their Civics, Mustangs, Integras, etc. adding harness systems and then being killed in a roll-over situation from a collapsed roof. Ironically, your chances for survival in one of these situations with a stock over-one-shoulder belt is better because your body has somewhere to go. With a restraint system that holds you upright, your spine is crushed in a roll-over and your are dead.
Think about it.
BlackICE said:
You do not need to drill any holes for a 6 point harness. I have a six point installed and no drilling is required. The six point use the seat belt anchor points just as Canibl posted. These were professionally installed by Roush.
Dave
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BlackICE
GT Owner
nota4re, your advice seems logical. I had a friend that rolled an Integra and his head was a mess. It looked like it was ground up from rubbing on the pavment. The sun roof was crushed and broken and pushed down quite a bit.
However what did Gurney do when he raced the GT40? A roll cage on the GT would block the purpose of the doors with a roof. I am sure that Gurney had a harness and that if the car overturned that bubble would just crush inward and compress Gurney's spine.
BlackICE
However what did Gurney do when he raced the GT40? A roll cage on the GT would block the purpose of the doors with a roof. I am sure that Gurney had a harness and that if the car overturned that bubble would just crush inward and compress Gurney's spine.
BlackICE
The roll cage is not required IMO unless you are doing full out racing and then the sponsoring body has certain requirements.
During all the testing Ford did during development a GT never rolled or flipped. Ford feels very strongly about the stability of the car and low center of gravity being reasons why the car did not have problems during development.
I do many track days each year and do not see a need. That is my belief and feeling. That some one who may not track cars has a different opinion thats fine. I have been going to Watkins Glenn, Pocono, and sometimes Lime Rock and have not seen a car flip during high speed driving sessions that I attend. Could it happen,sure it could but then the sky could fall also.
Dave
During all the testing Ford did during development a GT never rolled or flipped. Ford feels very strongly about the stability of the car and low center of gravity being reasons why the car did not have problems during development.
I do many track days each year and do not see a need. That is my belief and feeling. That some one who may not track cars has a different opinion thats fine. I have been going to Watkins Glenn, Pocono, and sometimes Lime Rock and have not seen a car flip during high speed driving sessions that I attend. Could it happen,sure it could but then the sky could fall also.
Dave
FGT4me
GT Owner
- Oct 19, 2005
- 95
I think the integrity of the roof of the GT in the case of a rollover is a valid question to raise.
I HAVE seen a viper roll over on it's roof (it had a roll cage).
I have a roll BAR in my Viper that I track for this reason... it's not a full cage but will keep the roof off my head in a rollover.
If we knew how the GT fared in a rollover we could then make informed decisions about this. Given the kind of doors it has, something unusual would have to be fabricated... it doesn't have to mar the appearance of the car.
Tracking the car in earnest without at least a bar is just betting with the odds but not foolproof.
Perhaps someone from Ford can comment.
I HAVE seen a viper roll over on it's roof (it had a roll cage).
I have a roll BAR in my Viper that I track for this reason... it's not a full cage but will keep the roof off my head in a rollover.
If we knew how the GT fared in a rollover we could then make informed decisions about this. Given the kind of doors it has, something unusual would have to be fabricated... it doesn't have to mar the appearance of the car.
Tracking the car in earnest without at least a bar is just betting with the odds but not foolproof.
Perhaps someone from Ford can comment.
In my opinion, looking at the rear bulk head and frame construction of the GT you will not get much more protection from installing a roll over bar. A full cage on the other hand will surely help, especially at the front windshield and door areas of the car, no doubt about it. However, just imagine the difficulty getting in and out of the GT with a full cage. I’ve seen it and it’s not pretty. Also a cage is not DOT legal and for good reason, you can’t get in and out easily. So, as others have suggested here I would not recommend it unless you are preparing your car for track only events.
I too have been told that no one has rolled a GT. Think of all those mule cars being beat on and driven at tracks real hard by race drivers, magazines writers, etc. Honestly some of these GT’s have over 50,000 miles on them and still no roll over. This is where Ford is gathering their information about reliability, safety, etc. The center of gravity is so low on a GT that it is no wonder we have not yet heard of a roll over.
Yes a roll over could happen but it appears much more likely that you would be involved in a front end or rear end collisions while on the track and there is no substitute for a 5 or 6 point harness. It holds you in the seat period. Without this you can not easily work both feet on the pedals. Just my opinion but get a very good quality Snell SA helmet and have a 6 point harness installed if you are going to track your GT.
I too have been told that no one has rolled a GT. Think of all those mule cars being beat on and driven at tracks real hard by race drivers, magazines writers, etc. Honestly some of these GT’s have over 50,000 miles on them and still no roll over. This is where Ford is gathering their information about reliability, safety, etc. The center of gravity is so low on a GT that it is no wonder we have not yet heard of a roll over.
Yes a roll over could happen but it appears much more likely that you would be involved in a front end or rear end collisions while on the track and there is no substitute for a 5 or 6 point harness. It holds you in the seat period. Without this you can not easily work both feet on the pedals. Just my opinion but get a very good quality Snell SA helmet and have a 6 point harness installed if you are going to track your GT.
BlackICE
GT Owner
I agree with Trackday about the GT not gaining much from a rollbar and a rollcage would make the car much more difficult to live with as a street car. I seen many cars on the track flip over and I don't think the GT is immune. Just less likely to happen.
At Sears point there are a number of places that if you go off track you run the car up a dirt hill. I have seen car go up and then roll down flipping as they fall. I have seen a Cobra at Thunderhill roll upside down at the Cyclone turn. This is a sharp, negative camber turn. The car was flattened to the hood and rear deck. No rollbar!. It was a sad thing to see just the guys arms hanging out of top of the doors with the car sliding down a hill. I don't know what happened to him. He was carted off in an ambulance.
BlackICE
At Sears point there are a number of places that if you go off track you run the car up a dirt hill. I have seen car go up and then roll down flipping as they fall. I have seen a Cobra at Thunderhill roll upside down at the Cyclone turn. This is a sharp, negative camber turn. The car was flattened to the hood and rear deck. No rollbar!. It was a sad thing to see just the guys arms hanging out of top of the doors with the car sliding down a hill. I don't know what happened to him. He was carted off in an ambulance.
BlackICE
B O N Y
MODERATOR & FGT OWNER
BlackICE said:
Regarding the Yellow Superformance Cobra that rolled at Thunderhill, the car did have a paper clip roll bar. The driver still has not regained used of his arm and hand. That wreck was the last time I considered driving my Cobra on the track with the present safety equipment.
Dave, et.al,
Yep, everyone's entitled to an opinion - even those who don't track their cars. Like you, I have some good track time under my belt although I'm not sure to track the GT when it arrives. I respect those that do... and I suppose I'll end up taking it too after the newness wears off. I've tracked at Laguna Seca, and Buttonwillow and the most times out at Willow Springs (I'm not far from there.)
The issue of the multi-point harness is a relatively simple one. I'm sure with your track time, you are using the belts to get "locked in" a little better as they afford you a better feeling of the car and they also insure your butt stays in one spot. I suppose too, that in many types of collisions, the belts afford more protection that the standard belts. However, in a roll-over (sans roll cage), they are dangerous. Roll-overs are less likely in a GT - agreed, but the GT has limited headroom height and even less so with a helmeted driver, so any roof crushing will likely get transferred to the driver.
The "kids" put them in their cars because they look flashy and make the car seem racier, I guess. You don't see most of these cars at the track. So, if you're a track person, then you need to make the decision based on the pros and cons. If you don't intend to track, I wouldn't recommend the harnesses which, at first glance, may seem safer all the way around. I also agree with Dave that roll-overs at non wheel-to-wheel track events are much less common than a roll-over on the street. The GT, being so low and with such a low CG, is also less likely than most to roll.
Just make an informed decision.
BlackICE
GT Owner
For the shoulder harness something like these parts
http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stor...goryId=23519&parentCategoryId=10495&langId=-1
471-109H screw in back of the seat
471-107H clip on to the eyelet of above
I don't know if the thread size is right.
As for the Cobra that went upside down. The one a saw was a long time ago, around 1994 or 1095 I think and I was told it was a real Cobra not a replica. If my memory is right I thought the car was silver. So if the one you saw as at a later date then that makes at least two cars on that turn.
I remember my wife saying that I am going through that turn so slow. I replied that is on purpose! I didn't see much to be gained in going for it on that turn and a lot to lose.
BlackICE
http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stor...goryId=23519&parentCategoryId=10495&langId=-1
471-109H screw in back of the seat
471-107H clip on to the eyelet of above
I don't know if the thread size is right.
As for the Cobra that went upside down. The one a saw was a long time ago, around 1994 or 1095 I think and I was told it was a real Cobra not a replica. If my memory is right I thought the car was silver. So if the one you saw as at a later date then that makes at least two cars on that turn.
I remember my wife saying that I am going through that turn so slow. I replied that is on purpose! I didn't see much to be gained in going for it on that turn and a lot to lose.
BlackICE
BlackIce, Very well put. People need to hear and understand that most of us (myself included) taking our GT to the track from time to time are casual users, pure and simple. Don’t go out there running at 95 + pct. Cut it back and run safely. Not much can be gained by pushing beyond your limit and be conscious of the places on the track that pose more risk. When I have run at Watkins Glen I end up feathering the throttle going through the esses as the back end feels a bit light, there is no point testing the water beyond because at 140 and above you will pay a big price if it doesn’t hold. By the same token I’m real cautious about the off camber turn going back on to the NASCAR straight as there is no run off space. With race slicks one might push harder but you still need to be conscious of the risks. If you are going to hit the track extensively then surely consider creating a track only car with full roll cage, etc.
SYCO GT
GT Owner
I have witnessed a friend roll a 1995 e36 M3 sedan at Willow Springs during a 2 day BMW driving school where I was driving my 2001 e39 M5 sedan. The car rolled multiple times, but he and the instructor, both helmeted, were not injured. Very scary to see - I was running in a different group, so I was not on the track driving at the time.