Cena car

[w. mitty]

The real question is just how numerous the buying pool for NGTs will be. So far, selling prices have been artificially elevated by contractual scarcity. When the cars start to flow into the market, as they inevitably will, the prices will be defined by the strength and depth of those who wanted cars but did not get them. We also have to consider that some of those frustrated buyers will not be buyers at all if they have to pay nearly double MSRP to scratch the itch. I, for one, will be fascinated by how this story plays out...

 

[ChipBeck]

The real question is just how numerous the buying pool for NGTs will be. So far, selling prices have been artificially elevated by contractual scarcity. When the cars start to flow into the market, as they inevitably will, the prices will be defined by the strength and depth of those who wanted cars but did not get them. We also have to consider that some of those frustrated buyers will not be buyers at all if they have to pay nearly double MSRP to scratch the itch. I, for one, will be fascinated by how this story plays out...

Gentlemen,

The majority of frustrated buyers either will not or can not pay double MSRP for a new GT. And the contractual scarcity you mention is undoubtedly responsible for the 3X+MSRP auction prices to date. Prices will come down to below 2X MPRP after a number of cars exceed the 24 month lockup in my opinion but I doubt they will ever go below MSRP before they start rising slowly again years from now. And that analysis is worth every dime you just paid for it.

Chip

 

[GKW05GT]

I expected as Chip says and similar to the 2005/2006 pricing pattern. Although those did bit below MSRP at some point there were 4X available in the pool. For most of the forum it has no bearing until our heirs cash in after we cash out!!

 

[dbk]

The real question is just how numerous the buying pool for NGTs will be...

Actually, the real question is who gives a shit?

It's a tragic comedy that the exotic car world has been so reduced to all this nonsense. Honestly, how many threads can we get about some guy selling a car? What's the over/under on future threads to be started on auctions and/or sales prices on these cars? 300? 500? 10,000? Whatever the number is, that's the exact number too many. Will there still be Cena threads in 2020? 2025? I feel like Bill Murray in Groundhog Day reading this stuff, but instead of waking up next to Andie MacDowell at the end, I just down a bottle of Beefeater and blow my brains out in an Arby's parking lot. I'd much, much rather be reading one of your extensive and lyrical reviews, even if it was about a Honda Civic.

The crazy thing is that you could literally walk into a dealer circa 2014 and just order a 918. They were just...available. Same with P1, which was going to be 500 units until Mac sussed out that there weren't really that many buyers. But then specialty-cars-as-a-dick-swinging-contest really, really took off and now you have fist fights over derivative editions of editions of editions of regular production cars. The GT currently sits atop the throne of said contest. It will not forever. I feel like there's a distinct possibility the Senna is an inside joke to see how ugly a car can be yet still command a premium.

The most common question I get about Ford GT is "how did you get it?" Great. Super exciting. Probably exactly why Raj and Larry sat down to conceive it. I'm sure the people asking are bummed they couldn't make it to Le Mans 2016, or at least they will be as soon as someone explains to them what it was.

Spoilers anyone? Who wants a spoiler? Here's a spoiler: this will all end soon. It's probably (hopefully) going to be ugly too. Way too many people who don't know or really care about cars (not just this car, any car) beyond "I want something other guys at Cars and Coffee can't get" are involved at this point. Brokers, dealers, auction houses of poor repute, speculators with no personal investment or understanding about the product beyond the present day economics of the market.

The guys on the hamster wheel at all these other brands are going to wake up one day, lose interest, and the whole house of cards will be ****ed. How many dudes will endlessly get hammered having to buy GT4C Lussos and California Ts just to have a shot at the next Tour du Speciale Pista Aperta? Just pay the $300k over, it's cheaper and there's way less bullshit involved. How many cars are there on the market today that you "can't get?" How long can that be sustained? What happens when 918 VIPs don't literally buy each successive GT3/GT3RS/GT3 Touring/GT2RS/Turbo S Exclusive/Turbo S Exclusive Cab/Speedster, etc, etc?

And ultimately, more than anything else, how long can anyone possibly give a shit about these topics as the focal point of owning what are supposed to be pinnacle engineering exercises by brilliant people? It's a total waste. Does anyone really like reading this garbage for any reason beyond the tabloid nature of it? Is it fun? Does it enhance your ownership experience? Does it do justice to the long hours and late nights these guys put in to make these cars a reality? Andreas Preuninger has to want to blow his brains out reading value threads on Rennlist.

This post conveniently summarized as a GIF:

 

[roketman]

Actually, the real question is who gives a shit?

It's a tragic comedy that the exotic car world has been so reduced to all this nonsense. Honestly, how many threads can we get about some guy selling a car? What's the over/under on future threads to be started on auctions and/or sales prices on these cars? 300? 500? 10,000? Whatever the number is, that's the exact number too many. Will there still be Cena threads in 2020? 2025? I feel like Bill Murray in Groundhog Day reading this stuff, but instead of waking up next to Andie MacDowell at the end, I just down a bottle of Beefeater and blow my brains out in an Arby's parking lot. I'd much, much rather be reading one of your extensive and lyrical reviews, even if it was about a Honda Civic.

The crazy thing is that you could literally walk into a dealer circa 2014 and just order a 918. They were just...available. Same with P1, which was going to be 500 units until Mac sussed out that there weren't really that many buyers. But then specialty-cars-as-a-dick-swinging-contest really, really took off and now you have fist fights over derivative editions of editions of editions of regular production cars. The GT currently sits atop the throne of said contest. It will not forever. I feel like there's a distinct possibility the Senna is an inside joke to see how ugly a car can be yet still command a premium.

The most common question I get about Ford GT is "how did you get it?" Great. Super exciting. Probably exactly why Raj and Larry sat down to conceive it. I'm sure the people asking are bummed they couldn't make it to Le Mans 2016, or at least they will be as soon as someone explains to them what it was.

Spoilers anyone? Who wants a spoiler? Here's a spoiler: this will all end soon. It's probably (hopefully) going to be ugly too. Way too many people who don't know or really care about cars (not just this car, any car) beyond "I want something other guys at Cars and Coffee can't get" are involved at this point. Brokers, dealers, auction houses of poor repute, speculators with no personal investment or understanding about the product beyond the present day economics of the market.

The guys on the hamster wheel at all these other brands are going to wake up one day, lose interest, and the whole house of cards will be ****ed. How many dudes will endlessly get hammered having to buy GT4C Lussos and California Ts just to have a shot at the next Tour du Speciale Pista Aperta? Just pay the $300k over, it's cheaper and there's way less bullshit involved. How many cars are there on the market today that you "can't get?" How long can that be sustained? What happens when 918 VIPs don't literally buy each successive GT3/GT3RS/GT3 Touring/GT2RS/Turbo S Exclusive/Turbo S Exclusive Cab/Speedster, etc, etc?

And ultimately, more than anything else, how long can anyone possibly give a shit about these topics as the focal point of owning what are supposed to be pinnacle engineering exercises by brilliant people? It's a total waste. Does anyone really like reading this garbage for any reason beyond the tabloid nature of it? Is it fun? Does it enhance your ownership experience? Does it do justice to the long hours and late nights these guys put in to make these cars a reality? Andreas Preuninger has to want to blow his brains out reading value threads on Rennlist.

This post conveniently summarized as a GIF:

MOST EXCELLENT!
could'nt agree more!

 

[GTJack]

DBK is baaack!! Happy to read his analysis. The GIF is a sad bottom line to all the opining. Happy to be waiting on the concierge contacting me about my opportunity. Got a letter today saying sometime between now and the end of March.

 

[roketman]

Jack
I got the same email

 

[soroush]

Actually, the real question is who gives a shit?

It's a tragic comedy that the exotic car world has been so reduced to all this nonsense. Honestly, how many threads can we get about some guy selling a car? What's the over/under on future threads to be started on auctions and/or sales prices on these cars? 300? 500? 10,000? Whatever the number is, that's the exact number too many. Will there still be Cena threads in 2020? 2025? I feel like Bill Murray in Groundhog Day reading this stuff, but instead of waking up next to Andie MacDowell at the end, I just down a bottle of Beefeater and blow my brains out in an Arby's parking lot. I'd much, much rather be reading one of your extensive and lyrical reviews, even if it was about a Honda Civic.

The crazy thing is that you could literally walk into a dealer circa 2014 and just order a 918. They were just...available. Same with P1, which was going to be 500 units until Mac sussed out that there weren't really that many buyers. But then specialty-cars-as-a-dick-swinging-contest really, really took off and now you have fist fights over derivative editions of editions of editions of regular production cars. The GT currently sits atop the throne of said contest. It will not forever. I feel like there's a distinct possibility the Senna is an inside joke to see how ugly a car can be yet still command a premium.

The most common question I get about Ford GT is "how did you get it?" Great. Super exciting. Probably exactly why Raj and Larry sat down to conceive it. I'm sure the people asking are bummed they couldn't make it to Le Mans 2016, or at least they will be as soon as someone explains to them what it was.

Spoilers anyone? Who wants a spoiler? Here's a spoiler: this will all end soon. It's probably (hopefully) going to be ugly too. Way too many people who don't know or really care about cars (not just this car, any car) beyond "I want something other guys at Cars and Coffee can't get" are involved at this point. Brokers, dealers, auction houses of poor repute, speculators with no personal investment or understanding about the product beyond the present day economics of the market.

The guys on the hamster wheel at all these other brands are going to wake up one day, lose interest, and the whole house of cards will be ****ed. How many dudes will endlessly get hammered having to buy GT4C Lussos and California Ts just to have a shot at the next Tour du Speciale Pista Aperta? Just pay the $300k over, it's cheaper and there's way less bullshit involved. How many cars are there on the market today that you "can't get?" How long can that be sustained? What happens when 918 VIPs don't literally buy each successive GT3/GT3RS/GT3 Touring/GT2RS/Turbo S Exclusive/Turbo S Exclusive Cab/Speedster, etc, etc?

And ultimately, more than anything else, how long can anyone possibly give a shit about these topics as the focal point of owning what are supposed to be pinnacle engineering exercises by brilliant people? It's a total waste. Does anyone really like reading this garbage for any reason beyond the tabloid nature of it? Is it fun? Does it enhance your ownership experience? Does it do justice to the long hours and late nights these guys put in to make these cars a reality? Andreas Preuninger has to want to blow his brains out reading value threads on Rennlist.

This post conveniently summarized as a GIF:

I mentioned something similar a while back (although not as articulate) add to what you said the fact that there are all these shows that are related to cars for buying, chasing, wheeling, dealing, worth etc etc to hype the whole industry which entices a lot of people that would not otherwise be really into cars for the right reason get in the middle of things and we all know what happens when you have a lot of middle men.

on the other side of the coin you can argue that if the demand wasnt there people would not pay these outrages prices or buy the ugliest cars I have ever seen for millions of dollars ie gumpart or venneno etc. its so screwed up nothing makes sense anymore.

I dont agree with your assessment of "this" whole thing ending soon. There are far too many stupid people with lots of money to over pay for garbage and or just overpay even if they are not getting garbage. its like a chain reaction one guy buys a countach for 150k next one sells for 200K then 300K. I mean anyone that would pay 300K for a countach just doesnt understand cars or value ( and I actually like the countach) but apparently there are a lot of them out there, or maybe I just dont understand people.


when you see the car shows on tv going away then perhaps that would be an indication that this whole thing might slow down or stop
too much money to be made getting people interested in what you are selling.

so until then, there will inevitably always be a thread about how much this costs or what that is worth.

 

[06fordgt]

Hi DBK. Glad to see you back in the fold as exciting as usual.

PS sent you a pm a few days ago.

 

[RPM217]

Jack
I got the same email

I guess I'm aiming for Memorial Day 2019 at LimeRock for my hot laps!!!!

 

[timcantwell]

I agree with DBK on nearly every front. However, I must point out that there is a distinct difference between those who possess true "passion" for the automotive industry, marque, or type of automobile and those who merely reduce the buying and selling of cars as commodities to be traded. It is when we cross the lines between these very two different worlds that we become pissed off and overly concerned with the wrong things. Remember, whenever money is involved - it will attract thieves, speculators, interlopers, etc., etc. There is ALOT of money involved in the world of exotic cars. In about three hours a Reliable truck is showing up at my house to deliver my new 2018 Ford GT. Am I excited, YES, but not because of how much it cost or what it may or may not be worth at some point in the future. I bought one because of the rich history of LeMans and all the men and machines that were involved in the past and today who were and are passionate about what they do. That's why I neglect to answer the stupid questions I get at car shows like, "How much did it cost?", "What's the fastest it will go?" Instead I try to steer the conversation to help people understand the passion, the unique design, the technology, the blood, sweat, and tears that went into the design, production and victories on the race track. Assuming that we can made the distinction between "The Car Market", and "The Cars Themselves" we can remove ourselves from the ups and downs emotionally that force us to pay attention to the Cena's in our little world who happened to buy, then sell a car. Really, who cares? Enjoy your car, go out and drive, take it to a track, spread the "gospel" of rich motorsports history and the brave men and women who truly inspire passion.

 

[roketman]

Tim
First off I really want to congratulate you on getting a new GT! Please post pictures for us to drool over! It's a very special and exciting time for sure.
I think the comments you made about the passion that we have for these cars, is what makes this forum so special.Truly a passionate group.
I think that is evidenced by how many people are still original owners. As I always say the only investment a car is to me is my enjoyment. Having done 50k in my GT speaks for itself!
Nice post! And congrats again!

 

[Simon]

"There is but one truly serious philosophical problem and that is suicide." - A. Camus

 

[maxemus]

"There is but one truly serious philosophical problem and that is suicide." - A. Camus

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Simon]

LOL...I guess Camus' philosophy of the absurd, man's search for the meaning of life as it relates to the struggles of a greek mythological creature may have not been appropriate on a car forum?? I guess I should have used emoticons to explain my macabre sense of humor.

 

[Sinovac]

LOL...I guess Camus' philosophy of the absurd, man's search for the meaning of life as it relates to the struggles of a greek mythological creature may have not been appropriate on a car forum?? I guess I should have used emoticons to explain my macabre sense of humor.

You’re good. He died in a Facel Vega, so there is a sufficient car connection.

Since Dave pooped on the Cena thread, it’s a good opportunity to change the subject.

https://petrolicious.com/articles/why-the-facel-vega-hk500-is-collectable

Facel Vega HK500

 

[Xcentric]

Facile Vega.

 

[Sinovac]

:lol

 

[soroush]

Facile Vega.

View attachment 51910

yes I can see the family resemblance :lol

 

[Sinovac]

Where do you guys think Vega prices will be in a couple years?