Brake Fluid Replacement and Bleeding Required for Track Day?

[w.a.nelson]

I am looking at a track day session where their Tech Inspection requires certification of recent changing of brake fluid and bleeding of brakes.

Two questions:

Is this a reasonable or necessary requirement, or just some kind of liability gambit?

What am I up against in terms of changing fluid and then bleeding? ( Sub-questions - what type fluid?; any special tools/equipment required? ( I have heard of needing a computer interface to bleed certain ABS systems - do we even have ABS on the GT?); is this a one-man job?

I'm sure there is a lot of experience and opinions out there. Anything you can share to help me would be appreciated .

My two prior track day experiences - SAAC 33 and Rally III - were done without doing the above, and brakes were fine.

 

[Yukonranger]

If you don't and your fluid boils you will have no brakes...

Brake fluid picks up moisture over time and the boiling point is reduced. It is worth doing. There are a lot of ways to accomplish the task requiring various amounts of time and tools. The Motorcraft fluid is reportedly pretty good as it was designed to deal with senior Lincoln drives driving down the highway with their left foot on the brakes all the time (heard this from a Ford engineer).

There is also a brake fluid which comes in blue and amber. It is easy to know when you have all the old fluid out by alternating the colors.

The Rally III track driving was kind of a joke and was not hard on brakes (glad I didn't bring my car down for that!). Nobody was going fast and only a few laps at a time.

There are other threads on various bleeding options including pressure bleeders which make the job go quickly.

 

[Team Jeff]

No special tools required, the change can be done in the "traditional" way by asking an assistant to depress & release the brake pedal while you open/close the bleeder on the caliper (there are two on each caliper btw).

I would suggest changing the clutch fluid also, I had some black flecks in there along with what looked like coagulated fluid... strange stuff. Glad to get it out & fresh fluid in!

I used Motul RBF 600 in both the brake & clutch system.

Should it be done? Yes if, its been over a year OR you have done two track days. Thats just my schedule, not an official guide :thumbsup

 

[fjpikul]

Bill, most tracks are requiring this for the tech inspection. It's the nature of the beast.

 

[roketman]

Besure to put in dot 4 castrol or super bluein the brakes and clutch

 

[Specracer]

Simply put, not checking tire pressures and bleeding brakes prior to a track day is like putting on a suit with out taking a shower for a week and going to a wedding, just something you would not do. Safety is KING, and these are basic easy things to do. While a full flush and a change to a Motoul, AP, super blue, is recommended, AT LEAST bleed them with fresh OEM fluid. And while you are there, check out the pad thickness.

As for how? there are several threads, and many of them focus on the cool tools, like the Motive, or the Vac systems, BUT before my Motive tool came, my 8 year old and I did it. Press and hold the pedal, crack the bleeder screw, when pedal hits floor close valve, then release the pedal, and repeat approx 3times. Remember 3 things:
1. Be sure to check reservoir level, sucking in air is where you have the ABS issues. It is handy to be able to see the reservoir, so pull out the front "boot"

2, there are two bleeder valves on each caliper

3 brake fluid is TOUGH on paint, so use a bleeder bottle, which can be a piece of clear tubing and a Gatorade bottle, and if any gets on the caliper wash off with water asap.

 

[Indy GT]

Besure to put in dot 4 castrol or super bluein the brakes and clutch

If you stay consistent with what the design team originally put in our cars (ie the OE Motorcraft brake fluid) you don't have to worry about the "dot" things.

I am always leery of those who "think" they know more than the actual engineers at Ford and Brimbo who designed our braking system.

 

[Pete S.]

http://www.fordgtforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13875&highlight=motive

Earlier links are out there on this. I had not pushed out the brake fkuid on my first day out and after about 5 laps had to really slow down as the brakes went away.

Now I change it twice a year. Easy to do and haven't had trouble since. Better get yourself a set of spare pads as they will wear out a bit more quickly on the track. And have fun!

Pete S.

 

[nsfkid]

I am always leery of those who "think" they know more than the actual engineers at Ford and Brimbo who designed our braking system.[/QUOTE]

I am glad no "brimbo" engineers will be working on my car:lol:lol:lol:banana

 

[roketman]

The fluids are the weak link.
Hey lets ask Shadowman and the Gt guys what they use ?

 

[cobrar1339]

I have had good luck with the Motul RBF 600 Factory line and Castrol. Had this as well as others in a few cars. Castrol likely the better of the two for the experienced hardcore driver and hard braking track. Stillen has also reported good luck on the Rallies with Castrol. Motul is very good as well at a much lower cost and should hold up for the avg. track day events.

Have also had good luck with the Titanium brake shims on hard braking tracks. Used to have to bleed the Z06 after one long day at Laguna or BW. Can get through a long weekend now plus. Works as a heat brake to reduce heat going to the pistion and boiling the fluid. Made some GT sets as well.

Experiences reported depend on the track IMO. For example, Willow Springs big track is easy on brakes. You will hear lots of versions of how the brakes/rotors/fluids hold up. They all are correct for the track they are running and how hard they are running. There is nothing wrong with the GT OEM brake system. Good fresh fluid solves lots of issues. Ti shims are a cheap solution before stepping to a larger diameter system.

Note: Larger sytems have more leverage, but the calipers still need to be bled with the same frequency. I can't speak for any specific system, but have experienced that in some cases they do not hold much more fluid , sometimes less.

While the brakes may bite harder/faster, they will still boil the fluid over time and fade. Most reports we get are right after folks install a brand new system , thus fresh fluid. Most first time track reports have the original fluid in the car that is now 4-5 years old. And yes, it gets weaker just sitting there.

But, in either case 2 weekends of open track anywhere = Bleed and flush calipers IMO.

 

[roketman]

simply put, not checking tire pressures and bleeding brakes prior to a track day is like putting on a suit with out taking a shower for a week and going to a wedding, just something you would not do. Safety is king, and these are basic easy things to do. While a full flush and a change to a motoul, ap, super blue, is recommended, at least bleed them with fresh oem fluid. And while you are there, check out the pad thickness.

As for how? There are several threads, and many of them focus on the cool tools, like the motive, or the vac systems, but before my motive tool came, my 8 year old and i did it. Press and hold the pedal, crack the bleeder screw, when pedal hits floor close valve, then release the pedal, and repeat approx 3times. Remember 3 things:
1. Be sure to check reservoir level, sucking in air is where you have the abs issues. It is handy to be able to see the reservoir, so pull out the front "boot"

2, there are two bleeder valves on each caliper

3 brake fluid is tough on paint, so use a bleeder bottle, which can be a piece of clear tubing and a gatorade bottle, and if any gets on the caliper wash off with water asap.

you funny guy !!!

 

[FENZO]

IMO:
OEM/ATE = Good
Motul 600/660 = Better
Castrol SRF = Best (Although I have no personal experience with Castrol, just what I've been told by others)

Per the manual, bleed/flush via the standard method starting with the inboard bleeder, then outboard, then inboard again for each caliper in the following order: RR, LR, RF, LF.
I stick with Motul these days, plus it comes in 0.5L bottles which means you can get 3 & get a good flush without waste. The others come in 1L, I find that 2L is too much but 1L is not enough. You should never save brake fluid in a bottle after it is opened as it is hygroscopic (absorbs water in the presence of air).

 

[kmillen]

On the 2006 rally we ran Motul RBF600 brake fluid and that was a really stupid mistake. We knew better than to use it as we had boiled it once before in another race car of ours (Nissan 300ZX) and we boiled it again on the rally. We bled the system numerous times and kept boiling the brakes. We were kind of stuck with the RBF because it was the only thing we brought with us. About half way through the rally we switched to Castrol SRF and never had a problem again. Steve's exact words after the rally were "I am never putting that sh!t in my car again!" We still use it on street cars and it works fine, but we will never put it in another race car again.

The only downside of Castrol SRF is that it is pretty pricey. Also, it is possible to boil it and once it does boil all of the NASCAR teams running AP Racing brakes say that the pressure does not come back anywhere near 100%. It loses alot of its pressure.

In 2008 we ran the rally using AP 600 brake fluid. It is a very good fluid that is right around the same ball park pricing as the Motul RBF600. We did not boil the brake fluid once in 2008 and we were pushing the car MUCH harder than we did in 2006. However, we also fabricated some brake ducts and some shields to direct a lot of air to the brakes which we did not have in 2006. I am sure that this helped alot as well.

As it has been mentioned before, it is a very good idea to change out your brake fluid prior to going to a track day. Our brakes Manager at STILLEN used to work for a company that sold the brake systems directly to the NASCAR and Indy Car teams. I constantly pick his brain for information and a few weeks ago I actually asked him about brake fluids and how often they should be changed on race cars or when going to track events.

His explanation was pretty simple. If it's a professional race car, fluids should be changed after every event, no questions asked just change the fluid. If it is a fun car that is being taken to the track you should change the fluid every few track sessions or at least twice a year depending on how frequently you go to the track. Also, if the brake fluid boils it needs to be changed.

Considering these cars are all around three or older, it would be a good idea for every owner who is considering a track day to have new brake fluid put in their car. Brake fluid does pick up moisture and it is a good idea to go to the track with fresh fluid. 3-4 year old fluid would not be the best setup.

 

[w.a.nelson]

Thanks!

Thanks guys for all the great advice, and confirmation that this is the right thing to do.

I will make this the first order of business when I get back to NJ next week and begin getting ready for the track day.

 

[Pete S.]

W.A. . . . if you need a hand or not, I will have my Motive setup with me at Thunderbolt; plan on rolling in to NJ late afternoon or early Thursday evening which would give us more time than we need to flush it out. . . carefully.

Pete S.

 

[Mark06GT]

W.A. . . . if you need a hand or not, I will have my Motive setup with me at Thunderbolt; plan on rolling in to NJ late afternoon or early Thursday evening which would give us more time than we need to flush it out. . . carefully.

Pete S.

I would like to watch if you do flush them. PM sent with my cell #.

 

[Howard]

Pete, what Motive master cylinder cap do you use for the Motive bleeder?

Howard

 

[Neilda]

Despite what has already been said, I've been on a number of track days (here in the UK) and have never heard of such a requirement.

I guess we're a little less litigious over here. :wink

 

[Pete S.]

First, for my friend Howard: I will have to look it up, and let me say that it is an extremely snug fit, which bothers me a bit. I keep thinking I am going to break the resevoir, but of course I don't. Give me a bit of time to check the records and I will let you know, of course.

Nielda, I don't think it has much to do with more than common sense. When my car was about a year old with about 10,000 miles on it a neighbor of mine invited me to go out to a track with him and a handful of his friends who had rented a track for their testing and tuning. They all have competition licenses and I had no idea what I was doing out there, but still had a blast. That being said, every 4-6 laps I had to pit as my brake pedal was mush and just about going to the floor. Being very new to this I said nothing, thinking it was normal, and never felt it again until about 2 months later when I was invitied again with the same group to the same track. This time I brought an instructor I had met and had him carry a friend of mine around the track for a bit. After about 10 laps he came in and asked about the brakes. He had the same issue and knew why: though he was skilled enough to adjust his driving for the loss and remained out there longer than I would have.

Plain and simple, fluid boils, especially older fluid.

A Porshe had the exact same problem up at Gingerman Michigan last year, and as he was an IT guy with little experience with fixing cars, someone ran into town and bought some brake fluid, another participant handed me a Motive bleeder adapter, and within an hour, before the begining of his next session, his brakes were better than they had ever been. It is not anything special to FGT's. And it has nothing to do with liabilities. It is more common sense that prevention, which in this case is easier than an oil change, can help prevent any loss of track time and make for a much better driving experience.

Any folks who track their cars of any type on this site that don't refresh their brake fluid every now and then?

Pete S.