Aftermarket Control Arms
- Thread starter Carnut
- Start date
steved57
GT Owner
PROJECT321
Well-known member
I would be interested in machining replacement arms from billet. The billet versions looked awesome and I was bummed when I saw the cast versions for the first time. 1st thing that came to my mind was - someone should make a billet replacement. Obviously, many owners could not justify the cost just for the aesthsetic aspect. But in the event of a minor accident or just worn ball joints it would be nice to have a nicer looking alternative.
My guess is we could do them for less cost than the oem castings that DBK is saying will be available soon. (especially if we could put together a group purchase)
Of course great care would need to be taken to ensure equal or greater strength for safety reasons.
Does anyone know what the cost of stock control-arms are or what aluminum was used on the cnc'd versions?
Thanks
Jake
My guess is we could do them for less cost than the oem castings that DBK is saying will be available soon. (especially if we could put together a group purchase)
Of course great care would need to be taken to ensure equal or greater strength for safety reasons.
Does anyone know what the cost of stock control-arms are or what aluminum was used on the cnc'd versions?
Thanks
Jake
PROJECT321
Well-known member
DataDale
Ford GT Team Alumni
Guy's your talking about Control arms here. Not bling, bling covers,plates, inserts or gas caps.
They fail and people my DIE !!! Replacement bushes & joints would have been nice. But redesigning the Arms to accomidate this is not possible.
Without Major OEM/SVT support And even then I don't know if it's possible. Actual space to have nuts, bolts or clips, to service the bushes & joint may not be in the actual space within the Wheels.
First you would need the front and rear corner data, all of it. Frame, Steering, Susp, Whls & Tires, Clearance envolopes.
Then Find joint & bush suppliers to support the Engineering. Then CAE modeling of the system & virtual testing would be required.
before you even start making chips.
FYI Matech had done this and had steel arms for sale last year. Don't know Who has the rights to all the Matech stuff now.
But some buddies selling parts for the Matech cars still racing.
I'll make a couple of calls across the pond and see what I can find out. I'll also, send a email to the Matech suspension designer that designed the steel arms.
see what his take on it is.
They fail and people my DIE !!! Replacement bushes & joints would have been nice. But redesigning the Arms to accomidate this is not possible.
Without Major OEM/SVT support And even then I don't know if it's possible. Actual space to have nuts, bolts or clips, to service the bushes & joint may not be in the actual space within the Wheels.
First you would need the front and rear corner data, all of it. Frame, Steering, Susp, Whls & Tires, Clearance envolopes.
Then Find joint & bush suppliers to support the Engineering. Then CAE modeling of the system & virtual testing would be required.
before you even start making chips.
FYI Matech had done this and had steel arms for sale last year. Don't know Who has the rights to all the Matech stuff now.
But some buddies selling parts for the Matech cars still racing.
I'll make a couple of calls across the pond and see what I can find out. I'll also, send a email to the Matech suspension designer that designed the steel arms.
see what his take on it is.
BUT.... The Matech car weighs, what, approx 2400 lbs and also had a much wider track, vs a stock car at 3500lbs+! Not to mention potential NVH changes.
Cobrar
GT Owner
DataDale
Ford GT Team Alumni
Matech designed 3 different versions of the FGT. I'm not sure all were with track changes.
I beleive the change may have been in the Knukles or spindles or in the hub units. not the arms.
I Will send a email to there designer & check.
Just talked to H @ Robertson and he has designed Billet arms with replaceable bushs & joints.
That they use on there cars. Suggested that he check with Dave & Andrea about selling sets of them.
The race teams have the production FGT data, and have gone though the development steps.
sahlman
Ford GT Team Alumni
I checked into FGT control arm supply today. I talked to Jerry at FCSD today and he checked the system and all arms are available in the Memphis distribution center. Jerry said that if arms are ordered through the Ford entry order system at a Ford dealer before 4 PM, then the arms should be at the dealer the next day by 8 AM. So, I am not sure why you have not gotten arms for the car over such a long period.
I have the following details for helping order FGT control arm assemblies:
Upper control arms- Service PN: 4G7Z- 3082-C: 9 in inventory in Memphis
Front lower control arms (RH)- Service PN: 4G7Z-3078-C: 4 in inventory in Memphis (3 pieces were delivered to Memphis in February)
Front lower control arms (LH)- Service PN: 4G7Z-3079-C: 6 in inventory in Memphis
Rear lower control arms (same left and right- but service shows as right hand)- Service PN: 4G7Z-5A649-C: 5 in inventory in Memphis (2 pieces delivered to Memphis in June)
Jerry said that the lead time for control arm assemblies is 45 days from the date of his order to delivery in Memphis distribution so he tries to keep a handful at all times.
The bushing supplier was changed about 2 years ago, so I am not sure how that topic came back up as a potential delay now.
Wow…no not to my knowledge. These are safety critical parts on any car yet alone a 200+ mph supercar. Serious, serious stuff. Shadowman is correct on the steel arms and one of the criteria to consider- you do not want to make them stronger or stiffer than the stock arms- they will have a very high chance of bending/breaking the very expensive frame and/or tearing out the mounts during a crash or hitting a big square edge pothole on the brakes. The arms bending and not breaking as well as not transferring as much energy to the rest of the car is as intended.
I have looked at doing some full chassis systems recently including GT control arm options, but the market appeared extremely small and the engineering design and development is very significant. For example, Jerry noted that they sold 7 of the rear lower control arms this year so far- a very small number. And Ford will supply them for at least 10 years past production (Ford corporate policy versus law). There may be discussion on Ford supplying the current forged arms longer, but it is not clear yet.
I have read through this whole thread and will work to post replies in the next few days to some of the items in this thread including design, development and production considerations and why, for example, the FGT control arm joints are not serviceable. I assume you want to meet or exceed the OEM safety, function, crashability, NVH- noise vibration and harshness and aesthetics (sounds like billet looks or better). To be clear, billet arms are not remotely just a machining exercise...I led the billet arms design and production on FGT after we had manufacturing issues with the original supplier that could not be resolved quickly.
2112
Blue/white 06'
I hope so considering the lack of serviceability Which I am anxious to learn why.
Looking forward to learning the how and whys on these issues. Thank you for taking the time like you did on wheel offsets and suspension loads.
I am curious. Are you still part of Corporate Ford? I ask because you live in Wisconsin. We are lucky to have you reading these threads (which can take a long time) and answering technical questions for us.
ppr2803
GT Owner
sahlman
Ford GT Team Alumni
It was a little under 1000 car sets that we supplied billet arms on the cars. We were competing against Boeing at the time for aluminum.
sahlman
Ford GT Team Alumni
2112,
I am glad to try to help here when I can.
I left Ford in Spring of 2006 after 12 years there and went on my own. Ford was great to me, but primarily the fun ran out after the GT. I spent the 2006 IRL season with Rahal Letterman racing. I was a chassis/vehicle dynamics engineer for Team Rahal with Ford Racing for the 5 years before the FGT work that started in 2002... back when ChampCar was very cool. IRL was no fun. I have had a contract with Ford Racing for the last 5 years assigned to Roush Fenway (Carl Edwards, Matt Kenseth, Greg Biffle, David Ragan) and now Richard Petty Motorsports (Marcos Ambrose and AJ Almendinger) in NASCAR Sprint Cup. I do vehicle dynamics (car setup recommendations) and chassis design work. It is a good challenge (not a spec series like people believe...but the IRL is a spec series). I am a fortunate guy to get to live where I want. The downside is a lot more travel.
I have to go work the rest of the day, but will try to answer the serviceability first later today or tomorrow. And the rest. Takes me time to write clearly and concisely...both of which I struggle with at times!
Scott
sahlman
Ford GT Team Alumni
GT Control Arms- Non-service Joints Reasoning
Hopefully the attached 1-pager explain some of the primary criteria and thought process on why the GT arm joints are not serviceable...I was going to paste it in here, but I could not get the formatting reasonable. Likely operator error and lack of experience posting here. Please let me know if you have questions about this reasoning.
Note- we did think of everyone on one service item where there was no compromise- the control arms can be removed from the knuckles without any special tools (balljoint splitter) that typically damage the boots. The upper ball joints and the front lower balljoint use a 90 deg tapered cone to connect to the knuckles, so the joint falls apart when the nut is removed.
Scott
Hopefully the attached 1-pager explain some of the primary criteria and thought process on why the GT arm joints are not serviceable...I was going to paste it in here, but I could not get the formatting reasonable. Likely operator error and lack of experience posting here. Please let me know if you have questions about this reasoning.
Note- we did think of everyone on one service item where there was no compromise- the control arms can be removed from the knuckles without any special tools (balljoint splitter) that typically damage the boots. The upper ball joints and the front lower balljoint use a 90 deg tapered cone to connect to the knuckles, so the joint falls apart when the nut is removed.
Scott