2006 Tungsten Ford GT - modifying

[MWG]

Here's the video of the "Autograf" car detailing their setup: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3hUA5TBnAA

there is a car here in houston tungsten w stripes, that has met injection on it, it is the autograph car, one that was at the texas mile last year, it showcased on super cars exposed, apperantly it was making 850rwhp and ran the mile at 205, there is a video of it lurking around here somewhere, they have the nozzle under the supercharger blades above the intercooler, and I believe there they are using two nozzles, good luck on your progress, and please post some the results before and after:cheers

 

[Tupps11]

Congrats on your purchase. Car looks amazing. Keep the updates coming:thumbsup

 

[spddmnjay]

I have a ton of other pics to post but need to wait for the Cardomain website to get back up and running.

I will definitely keep everyone posted on all my build details (pictures and descriptions). I enjoy sharing all the information I find out and anything that I learn along the way.

 

[Indy GT]

I too am planning to use a Snow Performance system. Where did you locate the nozzles (before or after blower)?

As for testing, some of the Modular Ford members dyno'ed there cars without the methanol injection to get a baseline. Then they installed a Snow Performance methanol injection system (pre blower) and didn't make any more power regardless of the many tunes they tried.

Well keep us posted on your progress with data.

As any engine utilizing a supercharger or turbocharger to increase inlet air pressure suffers from increased inlet air temperature (due to compression of the air to increase pressure, ie Boyles Perfect Gas Law), it is most helpful to pull that unwanted heat back out of the inlet air before combustion. The FGT engineers knew this and equiped our engines with an intercooler downstream (below) of the Lysholm screw compressor to extract the heat of compression out of the inlet air before it was combusted in the engine. Note, the OEM location of our intercooler (as you will find in every intercooled engine, IMO) is DOWNSTREAM of the inlet air compressor. This factory installed intercooler reduces inlet air charge temperature by up to 130F improving detonation resistance and increasing high load performance. See SAE report 2004-01-1252 for more specific engineering details on our FGT engine design and development.

It just does not make engineering sense to cool ambient inlet air upstream of the compressor. You need to cool the high temperature air AFTER compression for the greatest performance benefit. This seems to be verified by your statement,"Then they installed a Snow Performance methanol injection system (pre blower) and didn't make any more power regardless of the many tunes they tried" as I would expect based on my above explanation.

Keep us posted!

 

[spddmnjay]

Last night an idea popped into my head for methanol injection. Why not inject before and after the blower?? This would make sure that both sides are cooled. I could install one nozzle on the air inlet piping and a couple of nozzles on the underside of the intake manifold.

This way I wouldn't have to be too worry about the theories and or opinions of which location works the best.

I'll run this idea by Derek at Snow Performance.

 

[spddmnjay]

Well keep us posted on your progress with data.

As any engine utilizing a supercharger or turbocharger to increase inlet air pressure suffers from increased inlet air temperature (due to compression of the air to increase pressure, ie Boyles Perfect Gas Law), it is most helpful to pull that unwanted heat back out of the inlet air before combustion. The FGT engineers knew this and equiped our engines with an intercooler downstream (below) of the Lysholm screw compressor to extract the heat of compression out of the inlet air before it was combusted in the engine. Note, the OEM location of our intercooler (as you will find in every intercooled engine, IMO) is DOWNSTREAM of the inlet air compressor. This factory installed intercooler reduces inlet air charge temperature by up to 130F improving detonation resistance and increasing high load performance. See SAE report 2004-01-1252 for more specific engineering details on our FGT engine design and development.

It just does not make engineering sense to cool ambient inlet air upstream of the compressor. You need to cool the high temperature air AFTER compression for the greatest performance benefit. This seems to be verified by your statement,"Then they installed a Snow Performance methanol injection system (pre blower) and didn't make any more power regardless of the many tunes they tried" as I would expect based on my above explanation.

Keep us posted!

This is fantastic information!! :thumbsup

 

[spddmnjay]

I should mention that I do not plan on dyno'ing my car without the methanol injection. So I won't have a baseline from where I started.

I will not do a baseline dyno because I live in a small town where there is no dyno. I want to start on the modifications right away so I will simply install everything. When I am done I will load the car up and transport it to Edmonton or Calgary for a Dyno session.

I'm hoping SUPERFLY and NOT4N can help me find a suitable dyno shop.

 

[spddmnjay]

Here is a fella that I met on the Modular Fords website. His Mustang has a 2.3L Whipple and is running methanol injection.

Enjoy the pics and information below.

Here is a video when I tested the system before installing the supercharger. Ignore my buddy laughing on the video. He gets kind of goofy about mechanical things.

http://s89.photobucket.com/albums/k203/oldbones84/?action=view&current=VIDE0033.flv


"Jason I installed 4 jets in the bottom of my intake all four are 175ml jets. Car was on 23 psi on 91 Oct and ran this setup 9000 miles with no issues...

My setup is just a modified snow performance kit that runs quick connects, that splits into 2 AN lines that run through a N2o filter and to the intake.

I just blew my motor up last year when the crank snapped. The pistons and spark plugs look awesome. No signs of detonation and no problems with corrosion. I've been run 91oct in this car at 23psi and 23degs timing on a 2.3l whipple.

When I built my setup I've had a problem with the line that goes from the back of the water pump and through the valley. It's a tight fit and a pain to get everything to clear that line. Personal I'd use quick connects "instead of An" if I were to build another setup like mine. This will make the fit much easier, AN lines just aren't flexible enough

You'll also want a filter inline to make sure your jets don't get clogged.

I've seen some setup were they've used 2 jets, personal I couldn't see the distribution of alky being proportional with 2 jets; hence my four jet setup.
Also with a post blower setup you'll need a solenoid to keep the reservoir from siphoning.

The downside is the car being a pd blower can use a gallon of alky mix every 100 mi but this will depend on where the setting is on the controller on the progressive injection setup.

Cameron"

 

[Indy GT]

Ok, here is why you may NOT want to spray upstream of the supercharger. I know it is easy to access and most tinkers would want to try this possibly first, but IMO it is illadvised.

The screw lobes on our supercharger undoubtedly have sealing material on the apexs of the screws which enable sealing with the case in which they turn. Also the two screws are simply supported by two shafts with two bearings each. The bearings are likely sealed but are not designed with the intention of having alcohol washed around them. Likewise for the apex seals between the rotating screws and the supercharger case. To inject a petroleum product into this rotating machinery when it is operating at high speed may wash seal material and residual oils off internal surfaces which are necessary and required for operations at these high output conditions.

I would not recommend this option. Playing around with the most expensive component in our car is obviously the owner's choice. And owners seeking to increase engine power try new and sometimes crazy things all the time. If you really need more than 550 BHP out of the engine, Jason Heffener's (a Forum Sponsor) Twin Turbo (TT) combination is a very nice setup and will give your car plenty more power if that is your desire. Note, I have no affiliation with promoting Jason's TT package and I am sure there are others equally potent. I have just seen his package on DBK's as well as the Heffener/Camilo FGT auctioned at Las Vegas and was impressed with the installation and Jason's attention to detail.

 

[soroush]

since we have data on what the cars dyno in their stock trim you could be pretty safe assuming a number close to that plus or minus 25hp. so about 480 to 500rwhp stock and we know that pulley tune cars run anywhere from 620 to 640's so you should have a good idea where the car needs to be

 

[Indy GT]

Understanding the inconvenience of taking you car to have a baseline dyno run, any serious comparison of attending performance gains with modifications must have a start point baseline. Otherwise performance gains are just a guess and unsupported by data....

 

[spddmnjay]

Ok, here is why you may NOT want to spray upstream of the supercharger. I know it is easy to access and most tinkers would want to try this possibly first, but IMO it is illadvised.

The screw lobes on our supercharger undoubtedly have sealing material on the apexs of the screws which enable sealing with the case in which they turn. Also the two screws are simply supported by two shafts with two bearings each. The bearings are likely sealed but are not designed with the intention of having alcohol washed around them. Likewise for the apex seals between the rotating screws and the supercharger case. To inject a petroleum product into this rotating machinery when it is operating at high speed may wash seal material and residual oils off internal surfaces which are necessary and required for operations at these high output conditions.

I would not recommend this option. Playing around with the most expensive component in our car is obviously the owner's choice. And owners seeking to increase engine power try new and sometimes crazy things all the time. If you really need more than 550 BHP out of the engine, Jason Heffener's (a Forum Sponsor) Twin Turbo (TT) combination is a very nice setup and will give your car plenty more power if that is your desire. Note, I have no affiliation with promoting Jason's TT package and I am sure there are others equally potent. I have just seen his package on DBK's as well as the Heffener/Camilo FGT auctioned at Las Vegas and was impressed with the installation and Jason's attention to detail.

:cheers

I should have made mentioned before why I want to run methanol injection.

1. To increase octane rating at an affordable price. Hard to find fuel with an octane rating higher than 91 in my small town.

2. Excellent way to prevent detonation.

3. MORE POWER!!!

 

[spddmnjay]

since we have data on what the cars dyno in their stock trim you could be pretty safe assuming a number close to that plus or minus 25hp. so about 480 to 500rwhp stock and we know that pulley tune cars run anywhere from 620 to 640's so you should have a good idea where the car needs to be

I totally agree 100%.

My before methanol injection mods will be.

Stainless Works headers
K&N filters
Smaller pulley
Ported supercharger
Tune from Torrie

 

[spddmnjay]

Here's the video of the "Autograf" car detailing their setup: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3hUA5TBnAA

Thanks for the link my friend!!! NOW I AM PUMPED! Installing injection ports on the supercharger outlet port is genius. I never even thought of that.

So I assume that the methanol would then go through the intercooler...yes, no?

 

[soroush]

Thanks for the link my friend!!! NOW I AM PUMPED! Installing injection ports on the supercharger outlet port is genius. I never even thought of that.

So I assume that the methanol would then go through the intercooler...yes, no?

yes, that is where I plan to move my nitrous nozzle next under the sc above the intercooler

 

[BlackICE]

Just something to think about. Anyone taking a blower off will see that the PCV valve allows oil vapors into the intake track and an oil film can be seen in the area of the intercooler. I have been told there is a small orifice that any pooled oil can be returned to the crankcase. Therefore any excess methanol not finding its way to the combustion chamber will likely also go into the crankcase! Is it an issue? I don't know for sure, but I know it definitely won't help the oil. With proper tuning and operation probably NBD, but inject too much, or at the wrongs times and oil lifespan will be questionable at best. Just something to think about.

BTW, with 91 octane and a Whipple, or TT you will get more power than with a pulley and tune on methanol, but then again adding methanol to a Whipple, or TT will give you even more.

 

[spddmnjay]

yes, that is where I plan to move my nitrous nozzle next under the sc above the intercooler

Coool :thumbsup

 

[spddmnjay]

Just something to think about. Anyone taking a blower off will see that the PCV valve allows oil vapors into the intake track and an oil film can be seen in the area of the intercooler. I have been told there is a small orifice that any pooled oil can be returned to the crankcase. Therefore any excess methanol not finding its way to the combustion chamber will likely also go into the crankcase! Is it an issue? I don't know for sure, but I know it definitely won't help the oil. With proper tuning and operation probably NBD, but inject too much, or at the wrongs times and oil lifespan will be questionable at best. Just something to think about.

BTW, with 91 octane and a Whipple, or TT you will get more power than with a pulley and tune on methanol, but then again adding methanol to a Whipple, or TT will give you even more.

I will defnitely keep this in mind.

Only reason I am not installing a Whipple or TT is due to the $$$$$$. For now I will stick with the cheaper route.

 

[soroush]

I will defnitely keep this in mind.

Only reason I am not installing a Whipple or TT is due to the $$$$$$. For now I will stick with the cheaper route.

how much does the meth injection cost, I know its not much may be 1000 or 1500 by the time you get everything for it , not counting the labor, then you have to spend a lot of time on the dyno much more time compared to lets say if you whippled the car, and that will cost additional, and youre still dealing with a system that for the lack of a better word is unproven, so you will have to do some trail blazing and trail blazing costs money, honestly bang for buck it doesnt get any better than a whipple, and you might be able for find a used one from a member here as low as 7000 maybe even cheaper, now this is much more than a meth injection set up but if you think of all the time saving, reliablity, this proven set up will cost slightly more and but will have an un proportional gain in the long run

now a whipple meth injected nitrous setup hummmmm:biggrin

 

[spddmnjay]

One of the biggest reasons I am planning to install methanol injection is to increase octane rating. Plus it will eliminate detonation. Basically a safe guard for us who cannot get high test fuel.

I will do the install myself - so not cost there.

Torrie will provide the best tunes.