Supercar Tech Question - Please Weigh In.

[ChipBeck]

Gentlemen,

As I watch the growth and success of Tesla Motor Co., I wonder if that whole house of cards won't come tumbling down when the leased cars are turned back in with the guaranteed (and I believe) unrealistically high residual values after these cars are several years old and the battery packs have lost much of their range and capacity. But that's not my question.

The latest greatest cars from Ferrari, McLaren, and Porsche all use electric motors and batteries to power the front wheels supplementing their internal combustion power. Is performance degradation inevitable in these cars as their batteries degrade in time? If these cars sit unused for long periods of time will the front wheel batteries die and lock up the front wheels like some electric cars? How expensive will it be to replace batteries in a La Ferrari?

Clearly this new electric stuff works great while new. But every month the battery life in my iPhone degrades and shortens the life between required charges. How will it work out in the new Supercar hybrids?

Chip

 

[Xcentric]

The batteries will last longer than you think, but not as long as they should.

I must admit, I never expected Prius batteries to last this long. On the other hand, I know several early Honda and Toyota hybrid adopters who had their batteries replaced at no charge (no pun intended) long after the warranty expired.

Tesla offers an eight year warranty on the batteries. Pretty good! But how would you be feeling if you had an eight year old Tesla?

 

[zach05855]

The McLaren P1 uses an electric motor that is powering the transaxel. The P1 is solely rear wheel drive with the electric motor filling in during turbo lag which effectively eliminates it.

"The electric motor can be deployed manually by the driver or left in automatic mode, whereby the car's ECUs 'torque fill' the gaps in the petrol motor's output, which is considered turbo lag. This gives the powertrain an effective powerband of almost 7000rpm.[7] The car is rear-wheel drive with a seven-speed dual-clutch transmission."

The electric motor does double duty as the starter and power drive.

 

[BlackICE]

I posted about this before. A collectable? 20 years down the road where are you going to get new batteries and what will the cost? $$$. Worst are the electronic control systems if the break. Hopefully they are a lot more stout than our gauges.

 

[FENZO]

Oil guys arguing against batteries are like horse guys arguing against cars. Much of the argument makes sense, but...

 

[FBA]

Li-on batteries are generally designed to handle 1000 complete charge cycles before they degrade. A complete cycle means 100% of the charge being used and recharged; not the same as an overnight charge where you started with say, 50% then recharged. Example - 2 x 50% charges = 1 complete charge cycle.

The new Boeing Dreamliner is powered by the same batteries. So yes, at some point, the batteries need to be replaced, but they have a very long life until then. 1000 full charge cycles in a car (average use) should last over 5-7 years before replacement. They should not degrade until they have gone through 100 cycles.

I downloaded an app for my Samsung Note 3 that tells me how many full charge cycles the battery has gone through. It also tells me how much capacity is left. I have had the phone since Nov 2013. It has 73 charge cycles USED out of 1000. It has 101% capacity of the original capacity. There has been zero degradation. iPhones are known to have shit battery life to begin with, but don't confuse battery degradation with poor battery performance on an iPhone.

 

[RALPHIE]

Are not some of the high performance cars using other techniques to store the energy - such as capacitors, to drive the electric motors?

The hybrid prime mover (fuel burning)/generator power system has been in use in the U.S. since the 1930s when the Winton engine system was powering the electric motors in the cars of the Electro-Motive Company. Both of these companies were purchased and combined by General Motors into the Electro-Motive Division (EMD) in 1930. This division (and a similar one from General Electric) has been building these systems for the railroad industry since the 1930's, replacing steam as the motive power for freight transportation.

In 2005, GM sold EMD to Greenbriar Equity Group LLC and Berkshire Partners LLC, which formed Electro-Motive Diesel, Inc., to facilitate the purchase. In 2010, Progress Rail Services Corporation completed the purchase of Electro-Motive Diesel, Inc. from Greenbriar, Berkshire, et al. making Electro-Motive Diesel, Inc. a wholly owned subsidiary of Progress Rail Services Corporation, which itself is a wholly owned subsidiary of Caterpillar.

Since an electric motor can run in a reverse direction, an added advantage to the hybrid system can use this as a braking technique. I see the future systems still relying on fuel in such hybrid systems, not in the all-electric battery powered systems. The battery or a capacitor can be used as supplemental for energy storage, but the prime mover will still be fuel powered (perhaps fuel cells, or some other fueled device) - just my $0.02.