Red Diesel

[HHGT]

One of our forum members Jim told me yesterday that he filled his Duramax with Red Diesel at $1.50 per Gallon in California. My truck and his were graciously modified by non other than Kendall to lets just say remove some exhaust stuff - For Off Road Use Only Of Course. Also replaced the tiny piece of crap Diesel Tank with a honking 52 Gallon tank than can give us a range of approximately 700 miles in between fill ups. Did I mention Torque galore and 20 plus MPG.

I started researching Diesel fuels and I was surprised to learn that the color is a dye intended to discriminate for Vehicle, Farm Equipment and Home Heating use and the difference is usually the TAX. Supposedly, many Private Semi Truckers sometimes cheat and fill up with Red Diesel but they risk a citation, but in our case how the heck is a Highway Patrolman gonna know.

In any event, here is a link that gives some info. What say you, especially you guys on the east coast.
http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-red-diesel.htm

 

[Button]

Growing up in Iowa, red diesel was everywhere. Tractors and farm vehicles do not pay road tax. I uphold my 5th amendment right here, but I can assure you that off-road (red) fuel burns exactly the same as the clear stuff. the fines are hefty though. The DOT can check fuel filters if they suspect one might be keeping some fuel tax revenue from the state. Obviously with big trucks they can just open the fuel tank and look. With a pickup they have to suck out a fuel sample or check fuel filters. They can check, but they probably won't:thumbsup

 

[RALPHIE]

At Mammoth Mountain Ski Area, we use Red Diesel for the Snowcats, but normal clear (or yellow) diesel for the road snow removal equipment and the buses. Any equipment not used on a road or highway is permitted to use Red Diesel, the difference being the collection of taxes that are intended to be used for road construction and repair (although our legislature frequently ignoress these laws and steals these taxes for other purposes).

During the major portion of the season, we typically run 13-14 cats continuously over the swing and graveyard shifts (about 17 hours total), with each cat consuming about 120-150 gallons of fuel, or slightly less than 2,000 gallons of fuel each day, every day. Thus over the major part of the ski season (Mid-November through Mid May), about 328,000 gallons of Red Diesel is used to keep the slopes groomed. Thus, the tax saving by using Red Diesel is quite significant.

 

[sandman]

In California the CHP and DOT set up random check points for folks running red diesel (off road) in on road vehicles. I''ve seen them at rest stops, truck stops, chain stops and on secondary roads. The CHP or DOT officer will "stab" your tank with either a clear hose or a long white teflon looking tube so they can visualy inspect or blot it on to a test strip that will determine if it's on or off road. A farmer I know had an employee in a company pickup caught 6 months ago in my area at a random check point. The employee called called another employee for assistance as he couldn't understand the CHP officer and the CHP nailed both vehicles...$10,000+ later he had it all taken care of.

From the Ca. DOT: Penalties for trucks who are found with red-dyed diesel fuel in the tanks of their vehicles include a first-time penalty of $1,000 or $10 per gallon, whichever is greater. And, they will be held accountable for paying 24.4 cents per gallon Federal excise tax on the diesel fuel. That is the first offense it escalates from that point as my friend found out.

 

[pe2unia]

Being I live on a farm with farm equipment I have a tank within 150 yards of my driveway filled with "red off road fuel" but you know I would NEVER use it in my Excursion in fear of getting caught:cool

 

[sandman]

Oh and in California be sure to keep the equipment that was removed. Diesels under 14,000 pounds must pass smog inspection here if they were manufactured after 1998.

 

[Nardo GT]

50% used tranny fluid and 50% diesel.

 

[HHGT]

Oh and in California be sure to keep the equipment that was removed. Diesels under 14,000 pounds must pass smog inspection here if they were manufactured after 1998.

Are you saying that my 2007 Silverado/Diesel is subject to smog inspection at some point?

 

[HHGT]

50% used tranny fluid and 50% diesel.

PM me please with details.

 

[HHGT]

More info for DIY....

http://www.thedieselstop.com/forums/f22/used-transmission-fluid-fuel-215915/

 

[sandman]

Are you saying that my 2007 Silverado/Diesel is subject to smog inspection at some point?

Yes, Assembly Bill 1488 was passed and signed so starting Jan 2010 Diesels under 14,000lbs are subject to testing. The pickups we own have just had a visual and OBD check engine light test so far. One caveat, unless you're residing in one of the fewer and fewer areas in California that don't participate in the smog check program you'll get checked.

 

[HHGT]

Yes, Assembly Bill 1488 was passed and signed so starting Jan 2010 Diesels under 14,000lbs are subject to testing. The pickups we own have just had a visual and OBD check engine light test so far. One caveat, unless you're residing in one of the fewer and fewer areas in California that don't participate in the smog check program you'll get checked.

Looked it up, thanks for the info... One correction though... "This bill would, starting January 1, 2010, include diesel-powered vehicles manufactured after the 1997 model-year that have a gross vehicle weight rating of less than 8,501 pounds in the biennial smog check program, as provided."

I'm going to go weigh my truck now..

 

[sandman]

The 8,501lbs. was the threshold in 2008 when the bill was passed. The bill includes everything up to 13,999lbs for future testing. I have had 3/4 and 1ton trucks tested as a requirement for biennial registration renewal.

 

[BlackICE]

Looked it up, thanks for the info... One correction though... "This bill would, starting January 1, 2010, include diesel-powered vehicles manufactured after the 1997 model-year that have a gross vehicle weight rating of less than 8,501 pounds in the biennial smog check program, as provided."

I'm going to go weigh my truck now..

It doesn't matter what your truck weighs. Only the manufacturer's sticker weight counts. Should be inside the drivers door.

 

[ChipBeck]

I started researching Diesel fuels and I was surprised to learn that the color is a dye intended to discriminate for Vehicle, Farm Equipment and Home Heating use and the difference is usually the TAX. Supposedly, many Private Semi Truckers sometimes cheat and fill up with Red Diesel but they risk a citation, but in our case how the heck is a Highway Patrolman gonna know.

In any event, here is a link that gives some info. What say you, especially you guys on the east coast.
http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-red-diesel.htm

I sell undyed diesel and the tax in AZ is 18 cents per gallon for light duty trucks (below 26,000 GVWR) and 26 cents for HD trucks (26,001+ GVWR) or those with 3 or more axels. Over the road 18 wheel trucks get checked regularly. Light duty trucks almost never.

Chip

 

[twobjshelbys]

Chip, do you actually charge the different rate? Does the attendant tell the pump what rate?

In the late 70's I bought a Mercedes 240D. Great little car, couldn't get out of its own way at 5000+ feet. This was time of the huge lines, and everyone was waiting for gas, and noone for diesel. My wife's boss bought one for that reason and we got one too. Got something like 30+MPG. THe price of diesel was 19c/gal. Colorado at the time did not charge taxes on diesel at the pump but instead charged those in-state a mileage rate, and those crossing into the state were charged based on the tank measurement at entry and exit. It was a swell deal. I think they starting charging tax at the pump about two years later, but still diesel was lower in price by 50% than regular gas.

 

[ChipBeck]

Diesel tax.

Chip, do you actually charge the different rate? Does the attendant tell the pump what rate?

I am currently operating two service stations, one Shell and one Chevron. My Shell station has one pump whose price includes the 26 cent heavy-duty truck tax. Heavy-duty trucks are only allowed to fill at that pump. If they pull up to one of the light-duty pumps the attendant is instructed to turn the pump off from inside the store to prevent him from fueling and go out and show him where the heavy-duty pump is. My Chevron station has no heavy-duty pumps and any time a heavy-duty truck pulls in the attendant must shut off the pump before going out and informing the truck driver that he cannot fuel at our station. A real pain in the ass and it's a drag to have to turn away business like that. It's even more difficult because it is impossible to visually distinguish between medium duty trucks whose GVWR is 25,000 pounds and one whose GVWR is 27,000 pounds. The Arizona Department of Transportation staked out my store once and ran license plates of every truck filling up at my store over a two-day period. Using that license plate data (which no dealer has access to), they determined that a few medium duty trucks whose suspensions gave them a gross vehicle weight rating higher than 26,000 pounds had indeed filled up at my store. They fined me $80,000. They freely admitted that no dealer would be able to check trucks the way they did but the law is the law. Nice. :bored They also admitted that it's not illegal for the truck drivers to purchase fuel with the light-duty tax and that the burden fell exclusively upon station owners to police a law that they freely admitted was impossible for anyone to enforce. It took several days for my anger to subside to a level that allowed me to function again as a normal human. The day they hit me with that fine is the first day I resolved to move out of Arizona when I retired. In addition, since that day I have never again purchased a car, boat, or aircraft inside the state of Arizona. Sales tax revenue lost to Arizona on my purchases has already exceeded that $80,000. Injustice is a powerful motivator and in the long run the actions of those diesel tax inspectors will cost the state of Arizona far more money than they confiscated from me on that day.

Chip

 

[2112]

They fined me $80,000. They freely admitted that no dealer would be able to check trucks the way they did but the law is the law. Nice. :bored They also admitted that it's not illegal for the truck drivers to purchase fuel with the light-duty tax and that the burden fell exclusively upon station owners to police a law that they freely admitted was impossible for anyone to enforce. It took several days for my anger to subside to a level that allowed me to function again as a normal human. The day they hit me with that fine is the first day I resolved to move out of Arizona when I retired. In addition, since that day I have never again purchased a car, boat, or aircraft inside the state of Arizona. Sales tax revenue lost to Arizona on my purchases has already exceeded that $80,000. Injustice is a powerful motivator and in the long run the actions of those diesel tax inspectors will cost the state of Arizona far more money than they confiscated from me on that day.

Chip

That is an Organized criminal shakedown. :frown

And yet so many of the masses worship at the altar of Big Government. :bored
.

 

[BlackICE]

...A real pain in the ass and it's a drag to have to turn away business like that. It's even more difficult because it is impossible to visually distinguish between medium duty trucks whose GVWR is 25,000 pounds and one whose GVWR is 27,000 pounds. The Arizona Department of Transportation staked out my store once and ran license plates of every truck filling up at my store over a two-day period. Using that license plate data (which no dealer has access to), they determined that a few medium duty trucks whose suspensions gave them a gross vehicle weight rating higher than 26,000 pounds had indeed filled up at my store. They fined me $80,000. They freely admitted that no dealer would be able to check trucks the way they did but the law is the law... Chip

What total BS! How can anyone be reasonably expect to comply with the law unless they turn down any truck that is even remotely close to even 15,000 lbs GVWR The overhead to police this is crap.

They are doing the similar BS in CA on ammunitions sales. I can see many retailers will choose not to sell ammunition or raises the prices to cover the overhead.

 

[HHGT]

If Govt. had any brains, they would issue license tags (Here's a brilliant idea - color) based on GVWR. If they had any smarts at all, they would equip Heavy Equipment with some sort of an RFID system to identify for purposes intended such as a Gas Pump.