Power Steering

[Pete S.]

In this start of the information, simply put we had three Ford GT's at Virginia International Raceway this weekend. Friday was the full course at 3.7 miles and Saturday & Sunday were on the North course, about 2.7 miles.

Two cars experienced power steering failures as of yet not fixed. On both, the fluid is being lost at the high pressure hose fitting area; and continues dribbling out until there is none in that area even when the car is shut down and loaded into the trailer.

Today on mine, I began with the O-Ring on the high pressure hose; and that is not it. Tomorrow, the pressure hose section; about a foot long; will be replaced and we'll see what happens.

My guess on the failures is a combination of Hoosier tires, sticky after a few runs, on a track with some great cornering putting extra stress on the entire car. With street tires I am certain the stress would be lessened as the tires would be more likely to break loose and not so hard on the car at the reduced speeds.

I will update tomorrow and have been in touch with the great GT experts on our forum already; and they have been extremely supportive. I have not logged all track miles on my car but I can say that there should be no panic here for anyone not pushing the car fairly hard for 30 minutes at a stretch; burning well over a quarter tank of gas in somewhere between 20 and 40 miles depending on the track.

Can't wait to do it again.

Pete S.

 

[gtjoey]

Leaky ,squeeky ,your window spot at carlisle is ready, dont even wash it , we can put it next to the black swan race car:thumbsup
The GT BEATER SECTION...:lol
Got the call pete, dont forget the awards......:biggrin
gtjoey 1314

 

[nota4re]

Note that the GT also has a power steering cooler - essentially one row running the entire width of the radiator area. With the front splitter removed, it is very easy to see. You might check to see if all of the fins are OK and nothing is damaged from an impact to the splitter which transmitted to the heat exchanger, for example.

 

[MAD IN NC]

Kendall, the PS pump is notorious for the front seal leak.. Do you think that might be the cause under torque?

 

[Pete S.]

Note that the GT also has a power steering cooler - essentially one row running the entire width of the radiator area. With the front splitter removed, it is very easy to see. You might check to see if all of the fins are OK and nothing is damaged from an impact to the splitter which transmitted to the heat exchanger, for example.

It has been about 15,000 miles plus since we changed all the cooling modules, and the other car has about 11,000 on the roads. Though the advice is good, and there has been no splitter bumps since. Can this fluid require changing at intervals like all other fluids? That would be my first path.
Thanks for the input!

Pete S.

 

[Pete S.]

Kendall, the PS pump is notorious for the front seal leak.. Do you think that might be the cause under torque?

Mike,

got the news I won't be seeing you this weekend. It does not appear to be the typical front seal leak, but if I am wrong about that, I'll let you know.

Pete S.

 

[Pete S.]

Problem resolved. It is a break in the short section of high pressure hose connected right to the power steering pump. When I get a minute to look at it I will be more specific and try and snap a photo or two. (and bring the piece to Carlisle if I remember) And I will be ordering a spare, as it is very easy to replace, part had to be shipped from Memphis, and I missed 2 hours of track time as a result. Still, 2 full days at VIR and a bit of the third isn't bad at all.

Pete S.

 

[Team Jeff]

Thanks for the updates Pete! I'm interested in the photos and analysis of the failure!

 

[STORMCAT]

Problem resolved. It is a break in the short section of high pressure hose connected right to the power steering pump. When I get a minute to look at it I will be more specific and try and snap a photo or two. (and bring the piece to Carlisle if I remember) And I will be ordering a spare, as it is very easy to replace, part had to be shipped from Memphis, and I missed 2 hours of track time as a result. Still, 2 full days at VIR and a bit of the third isn't bad at all.

Pete S.

Do you think a better replacement hose could be had. Braided SS w/ Teflon lining like the brake hoses ? There are people who will make custom size, length and end connections..

 

[Beach-GT]

It would be nice to get an analysis of the failure and determine if it was just a defect in the hose before applying the elephant cure.

 

[Indy GT]

Agreed!
Perhaps Pete could take the PS hose with him (hopefully) to Carlisle and let Rich and Dennis take a look.
Always best to understand the failure before scheming a "fix".

 

[Pete S.]

Bill,

you know my mind set too well. Earlier this afternoon, as I held my finger under a plastic funnel filler with alcohol (not the kind for drinking), Denis (one of the GT Guys) held the hose (bad end) submergered with one finger holding the end closed and using his lung pressure to force air into the hose. The problem we found is multiple cracks where the flare is created on the back side of the hose (metal section); on the opposite end of the o-ring. I have no possible understanding of the failure, and will take some pics tomorrow.

Pete S.

BTW, as of about 8:45 PM, we had 18 FGT's including the real racer, one Mustang, one CAV GT 40. Pretty certain we're expecting more cars . . .

 

[t32b]

Is the part GT-specific? If so, would you mind informing us all of the p/n? I'm not a part hoarder at all, but this might be something to keep in reserve.

Bill,

you know my mind set too well. Earlier this afternoon, as I held my finger under a plastic funnel filler with alcohol (not the kind for drinking), Denis (one of the GT Guys) held the hose (bad end) submergered with one finger holding the end closed and using his lung pressure to force air into the hose. The problem we found is multiple cracks where the flare is created on the back side of the hose (metal section); on the opposite end of the o-ring. I have no possible understanding of the failure, and will take some pics tomorrow.

Pete S.

BTW, as of about 8:45 PM, we had 18 FGT's including the real racer, one Mustang, one CAV GT 40. Pretty certain we're expecting more cars . . .

 

[Indy GT]

Thanks Pete!

We do think alike (scary). You or Dennis might post up your thoughs and pics. Sounds like a flare problem from your description but would like to see some pictures.

Other than the typical weeping from the PS seal, I have not seen or heard of anyone complaining of any other PS pump failures, and this really is not a pump problem but a line problem to the pump.

Have a great time at the Carlisle event and drive carefully over....!

 

[Shadowman]

Thanks Pete!

We do think alike (scary). You or Dennis might post up your thoughs and pics. Sounds like a flare problem from your description but would like to see some pictures.

Other than the typical weeping from the PS seal, I have not seen or heard of anyone complaining of any other PS pump failures, and this really is not a pump problem but a line problem to the pump.

Have a great time at the Carlisle event and drive carefully over....!

Hi Indy GT

FYI Pete communicated with me after the failure and I shared with him that the ZF pump used which is the same as on other marquees has been replaced many times in my facility because of seal failure which is why (I think) that he made mention of it. I also shared that the odds of it being the seal were slim at best.

Now as for the hose; it could have been a simple assembly issue as such the problem will be seldom seen however if the pressure at that point along with the harmonics and vibration created are such that the design is simply lacking for extreme activies over a long period of time then IMO an alternate "AN" fitting/braided style hose could be created to solve the issue once and for all.

Takes care

Shadowman

 

[Indy GT]

Thanks Bill and I totally agree with your thoughts..

 

[Pete S.]

Almost forgot to bring the camera back to the hotel. Several folks looked at the failed hose and I have made an attempt to photo and describe what we see. These photos show a fairly good representation of where we saw the air bubbles escaping. A fellow member XRAYCOOK might be given this item within a day and he might be able to find a source of a stronger longer lasting item. There should be no immediate concern for the average FGT driver; if I can get 22,000 more miles out of my current replacement part, that will be just fine. Eventually, I will carry a spare to the track events. Hope the following images help, a bit:

Pete S.

 

[Shadowman]

Almost forgot to bring the camera back to the hotel. Several folks looked at the failed hose and I have made an attempt to photo and describe what we see. These photos show a fairly good representation of where we saw the air bubbles escaping. A fellow member XRAYCOOK might be given this item within a day and he might be able to find a source of a stronger longer lasting item. There should be no immediate concern for the average FGT driver; if I can get 22,000 more miles out of my current replacement part, that will be just fine. Eventually, I will carry a spare to the track events. Hope the following images help, a bit:

Pete S.

In my experience this is not a pressure or assembly failure but rather a vibration/harmonics failure.

The vibration/harmonics can be transferred if something as simple as a p clamp is installed on metal portion close to the fitting and then a lose strap attached nearby; the purpose is not to secure it but rather to create an alternate direction for the energy to go.

Takes care

Shadowman

 

[Pete S.]

P Clamp. Should be able to find something to attatch a hanger to a P Clamp affixed to the hose metal tubing behind the nut after being snugged down. It'll be a little time until I can get the car back out of Carlisle; fisrt one in - no room - last one out on Sunday; and up onto the ramps to look around. As always, Thanks Shadowman, IndyGT and all for the suggestions. And to another ealier post, I will jot down the P/N unless someone beats me to it, when I return to Maryland.

Pete S.

 

[Pete S.]

Just a quick update; XRAYCOOK (Mike) now has the failed piece and will check into the replication of a slightly sturdier replacement. Just back from Carlisle, and it will take a bit of time to purchase and devise a method of adding a P clamp with an appropriate hanger.

Pete S.