Flex fuel anyone?
- Thread starter peiserg
- Start date
twobjshelbys
GT Owner
Do you mean E85? Are you considering using it in the GT (or another car that currently uses normal gasoline)? Or buying a "Flex Fuel" vehicle (I think it's a Ford trademark)?
First, you can't just run it on your GT. It's a high-octane fuel (100+) but it's also a low energy fuel so you'll need at least new injectors and a tune. This is a one-way conversion. Unlike flex fuel vehicles that can run both normal gasoline (of the proper octane rating) converting a classic gasoline engine to E85 requires you to stay on E85. True "flex fuel" vehicles use sensors and dual-tunes in the ECU to sense which fuel and adjust timing/spark/fuel delivery accordingly.
Also there is some concern in other vehicles about the effect of the alcohol on rubber/plastic parts. I don't know if the GT would be affected but you'd want to find out for sure.
You will notice a decrease in MPG when running E85. With the price equalized (in Vegas it's the same price as regular 85 octane gas) consider operating costs (cents per mile) instead of MPG.
Availability is an issue. There is one chain that carries it here in Vegas and they are all quite a ways away from where I live. Midwest seems to have a lot of it. Colorado had quite a bit too. But driving across country might require planning like it did with my Diesel Mercedes back in the 70's.
If you're considering it for the increase in octane the physical conversion and one-way-street you might want to consider having someone get you a race tune you can load and use race gas. My tune from the GT guys came with a 103 octane tune and I can switch back to 91/93 for street.
First, you can't just run it on your GT. It's a high-octane fuel (100+) but it's also a low energy fuel so you'll need at least new injectors and a tune. This is a one-way conversion. Unlike flex fuel vehicles that can run both normal gasoline (of the proper octane rating) converting a classic gasoline engine to E85 requires you to stay on E85. True "flex fuel" vehicles use sensors and dual-tunes in the ECU to sense which fuel and adjust timing/spark/fuel delivery accordingly.
Also there is some concern in other vehicles about the effect of the alcohol on rubber/plastic parts. I don't know if the GT would be affected but you'd want to find out for sure.
You will notice a decrease in MPG when running E85. With the price equalized (in Vegas it's the same price as regular 85 octane gas) consider operating costs (cents per mile) instead of MPG.
Availability is an issue. There is one chain that carries it here in Vegas and they are all quite a ways away from where I live. Midwest seems to have a lot of it. Colorado had quite a bit too. But driving across country might require planning like it did with my Diesel Mercedes back in the 70's.
If you're considering it for the increase in octane the physical conversion and one-way-street you might want to consider having someone get you a race tune you can load and use race gas. My tune from the GT guys came with a 103 octane tune and I can switch back to 91/93 for street.
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You may not need to change the injectors - it all depends on the mods on your car. If it is just a pulley/tune, most likely you will be fine on stock injectors. Also, there are devices that will detect the ethanol level and adjust your tune parameters accordingly. These make a lot of sense because often E85 really isn't E85 - frequently it will be anywhere from E65 - E85. So, in the performance world it is not a 1-way conversion... you can fill the tank with E0 all the way to E85 and the tunes adjust automatically.
Here's some more info from Cobb: https://cobbtuning.atlassian.net/wiki/display/PRS/Subaru+Flex+Fuel+Tuning+Guide
Perhaps more related to the GT, here's some packages for 5.0L Mustangs...
http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37524
Here's some more info from Cobb: https://cobbtuning.atlassian.net/wiki/display/PRS/Subaru+Flex+Fuel+Tuning+Guide
Perhaps more related to the GT, here's some packages for 5.0L Mustangs...
http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37524
Fubar
Totally ****** Up
I am adding an E85 sensor and the parameters for tuning all the way to full methanol. Be aware that Ford specifically statesthat there are items in the fuel cell that are NOT compatible with alcohol. It is unclear what percentage of alcohol would cause damage and if damage would be immediate or only occur over time. As for injectors, a good rule of thumb is 'you need the ability to deliver about twice the fuel for alcohol as you would pump petrol.' While not accurate, you get the idea. If your fuel pump and injectors are operating at half their potential then you can consider moving forward with the project.
MarkH
GT Owner
If anyone is really considering doing this, I would really think about changing several items in the car (pumps, injectors, lines etc). I have seen a lot of cars converted over to E85 very successfully but you need to be sure and think about the entire fuel system and what is required. Not everything is compatible with E85 and may work for the short time but the longevity of the non compatible parts could be in jeopardy. I am speaking from one that runs Methanol in the car and the entire fuel system was changed to keep such a corrosive fuel from causing major issues. I wouldn't recommend going as far as methanol for a street car with how quickly it breaks down the oil but E85 is used a lot and very successfully.
twobjshelbys
GT Owner
In the end I don't think:
1. The cost of conversion of a non-compatible vehicle for daily use has any fiscal benefit and may cause reliability problems due to incompatibility
and
2. The cost of conversion for a race fuel is well, why not just use race fuel.
I'd like to be convinced otherwise that it makes economic sense.
1. The cost of conversion of a non-compatible vehicle for daily use has any fiscal benefit and may cause reliability problems due to incompatibility
and
2. The cost of conversion for a race fuel is well, why not just use race fuel.
I'd like to be convinced otherwise that it makes economic sense.
I have had e85 in my gas tank for 6 years straight now. Far longer than anyone in a GT. With stock pumps. Now with more hp you will need bigger pumps in the tank and will a lot of power you will need a surge tank set up. I have also had my pumps out of my tank and no stupid stuff has gone on with it being on ethanol.. I have also made the most power on it on a GT maybe till just recently with the nth car. but i have made 1466rwhp on e85 in my gt. ALso driven it 20000 miles with it.
Fubar
Totally ****** Up
I'm glad to hear that you have used e85 in the GT fuel system for that amount of time without problems? I presume you are allowing the e85 to sit in the tank between uses? and sometimes be present in the system for extended down times? My play was to use e85 as a race day fuel for the added cooling but never allow it to sit in the tank for more than a few hours. Your extensive use of the fuel and debatable abuse of the system make me feel a lot better about my ideas.
Twobjshelbs, the benefits of e85 for economic purposes are... you do know that this is an exotic car forum, right? Boosted application get mad power using e85, 20-30% more if you can deliver the quantity of fuel needed, all other things being equal.
Twobjshelbs, the benefits of e85 for economic purposes are... you do know that this is an exotic car forum, right? Boosted application get mad power using e85, 20-30% more if you can deliver the quantity of fuel needed, all other things being equal.
SMOKDU
GT Owner
- Dec 17, 2011
- 412
Like Dan said.lol 2 yrs for me. Bigger injectors .bap and 4 whipple. I'm maxed out on my fuel at 20 psi boost but the car rips . I used to run a cap full of upper cylinder lube In my methinal tank when I ran meth injection years ago and that stopped any corrosion on the pumps . I do not store the car with e85. It is an easy tune swap. You only change one value. And most gas stations are E85 or less. The lower the number will only make the tune richer . Thx Dan for the help
Ive run e85 in my exclusively for years.
I meant a true flex fuel setup. I.e. with ethanol sensor. So i can use 91, then e56 then e85 etc without swapping tunes. I want to know if anybody had previous experience with us in the GT and what they have to say about it
I meant a true flex fuel setup. I.e. with ethanol sensor. So i can use 91, then e56 then e85 etc without swapping tunes. I want to know if anybody had previous experience with us in the GT and what they have to say about it
Stand alone computer and you can. My car is now flex fuel but i have Holley efi on it.
I know this thread is old as sin but I would like to know if you changed the fuel filter when you switched to e85.
I know people are running different set ups with bigger fuel lines but I'm curious to know. Motorcraft makes the fuel filter FG-1091 for Ford GT 2006. According to Ford website the housing is made out of stainless steel which is similar to others fuel filters made for flex fuel vehicles.
I know people are running different set ups with bigger fuel lines but I'm curious to know. Motorcraft makes the fuel filter FG-1091 for Ford GT 2006. According to Ford website the housing is made out of stainless steel which is similar to others fuel filters made for flex fuel vehicles.
