Clarification Time


dbk

Admin
Staff member
Le Mans 2010 Supporter
Jul 30, 2005
15,242
Metro Detroit
Hey, I'm looking for an 800 lb gorilla. Anyone know where I can find one?

A couple things:

I have temporarily removed the "resolution" thread. I received a text message at 6 AM from Ray Hofman that it was premature. Until I am notified by Ray Hofman or Janna Hofman, it will stay removed.

I have locked, but restored, the other threads regarding this topic. I locked the original threads at Ray's request. I'm happy he asked but I would have done it anyways because the opinion or conjecture of anyone not involved is irrelevant to Ray's situation being resolved. If you have a problem with the above position on the subject, or feel like you have a reasonable rationale on how your opinion or feelings will help Ray get his car back, fixed or an agreeable financial remedy, please contact me. I will gladly give you my phone number and we can discuss this man to man.

Until I hear from Ray himself that the situation is resolved, the above threads are going to stay up. When and if the situation is resolved permanently, there is going to be a stuck thread about it. The topic won't be deleted unless the owner of the car tells me to delete it. Maybe he will want it, maybe he won't; it's on Ray. Any owner here that has their car totaled by another member would receive the same courtesy.

We have heard Ray's publicly posted side of the story. We have heard Shadowman's publicly posted side of the story. That's all the information you need. If you feel like you need more, you know where to find both of them. If they feel like they need to add more, they know where to find me and I will reopen the thread and allow them to do so. Again, if you think somehow information is being kept from you, go back and read those threads knowing that the involved parties are free to have made their positions known, and ask if subsequent third party pondering would change your opinion.

Shadowman was involved in an accident. He is lucky to be alive. He obviously did not intend or set out to crash anyone's car.

Sponsors of the forum are reflected by having their names in RED or the title "Supporting Vendor" under their name. Shadowman was simply a subscribed member with a GT that worked on GTs people assumed was a sponsor. This was not because of a name color, but because there is a grip of threads in the archives about people who posted happily about their experience with him. People also made the assumption because he's given alot of helpful advice over the years, and alot of the time it was free.

This is just a casual observation because insurance is a hot topic now, but if you are taking your car to be worked on, and the location at which you drop off your car is a house, not a commercial building, odds are they don't have commercial liability insurance. I should rephrase that to say "odds are before this week they didn't have commercial liability insurance". You can probably imagine the phone lines at the Insurance Co's are burning up as of late. But again, be realistic. Over the past ten years two guys have worked heavily on cars for me, both out of their houses. I never even contemplated that a guy working out of his garage would have a commercial liability policy. This is not a judgment of any kind on the current situation, just reality.

Nobody likes this situation. It's not good for Ray, it's not good for Shadowman, and it's not fun for the forum. People are friends with both of these guys. I understand that this is the internet, and on the internet people just can't stand the horrible thought of not being able to walk into their neighbor's house, grab the iron and start poking away at the fire, but that's just not how it works here. You've all got eyes. You can see what is going around the internet. I'd be lying if I said it made me feel anything but profound detestation to see the joy bored losers take while trying desperately to somehow join the party. Just be aware, schadenfreude is a dangerous thing because it's not a one way street.

I don't know where this will end up, but I can tell you this: It's ultimately going to get resolved between PeakCompletions and Shadowman, and nothing anyone else can say will change that.
 

timcantwell

Le Mans 2010 Sponsor * Moderator
Mark IV Lifetime
Le Mans 2010 Supporter
Jan 22, 2006
2,637
N.E. OH & Naples, FL
FYI: Dave, Chip, Rick, fellow members. I exercised my moderating duties this morning as well on the subject. (See the thread now titled "M"). The story has hit the web big time, it's going to be tough to protect our friends with all the news out there.
 

Jim H

Member
Nov 27, 2006
21
Florida, Tampa Bay
Sir,
you mentioned above that you have "Locked But Restored" both party's comments/remarks...I would be very interested in reading these remarks...Where are they on The Forum?
 

Kayvan

GT Owner
Jul 13, 2006
4,782
On a Mechanical note, what would be the wholesale cost of parts (assuming true frame) to repair:

All panels
Doors
Clamshell
Hood
Glass
Fascias
Lights
Transaxle

Assuming some OEM parts are still avail. with car (wheels, supercharger, exhaust, pipes)

Would be educational to learn, and constructive topic to discuss, while other issues resolve.

That GT salvage specialist has done 25+ of these (some worse), and he has a +$30-50K cushion to work with on a Heritage.
 

RALPHIE

GT Owner
Mar 1, 2007
7,278
Sir,
you mentioned above that you have "Locked But Restored" both party's comments/remarks...I would be very interested in reading these remarks...Where are they on The Forum?

It has always been the policy that those posts are only available to Ford GT Owners and are not available to the general public. Upon registering your Ford GT with the Ford GT Forum, such posts and others are available to owners.
 
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JRGoens

GT Owner
Dec 3, 2008
97
Lincoln, NE
DBK and Forum Moderators:

I have followed the forum for a long time now, but seldom post due to the fact of not currently owning a Ford GT. However, having followed the forum and having noticed already on numerous automotive websites and blogs are going rampant with the story. Being a forum member, I would personally like to hear the story of the terrible accident in the words of the actual people who had this event happen to them. Getting to the point, is it possible that their could be a sticky were the forum members who are not "GT Owners" could read the story in the actual words of the owner and tuner. If this is possible, I would greatly appreciate this and not look to outside sources, and instead to the GT Family that I have looked up to and followed over these past couple of years. Thanks for the consideration.
 

Jim H

Member
Nov 27, 2006
21
Florida, Tampa Bay
it would be informative to read the guys posts on this tragic accident...
 
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Kingman

GT Owner
Mark II Lifetime
Aug 11, 2006
4,072
Surf City, USA
it would be informative to read the guys posts on this tragic accident...

I'm sorry but this type of interest is best served by visiting TMZ or turn on your soap opera. DBK has shared what needs to be shared. PERIOD
 
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gzl

GT Owner
Jan 27, 2010
69
The correspondence is available on other forums, just google Ford GT accidents and you'll come up with sites. This is unfortunate and a car owner's, especially an owner of a collector car, worst nightmare. I hate taking any of my vehicles out for repair for that very reason.
 

RPM217

2005 white/blue stripe
Jun 18, 2010
1,664
Rye Brook, New York
It's nice to share information with other enthusiasts, and I was a long time enthusiast before I became a lucky owner. While I certainly respect everyone's curiousity, I must respect the wishes of the moderators and the privacy of the owners here. If they wish to share with others, that's their choice, not yours, mine etc. There is a ton of information/misinformation out there on the web, for now, this is a situation that needs to be resolved amongst the parties without interference from anyone. Hopefully there will be a satisfactory resolution.
 

timcantwell

Le Mans 2010 Sponsor * Moderator
Mark IV Lifetime
Le Mans 2010 Supporter
Jan 22, 2006
2,637
N.E. OH & Naples, FL
it would be informative to read the guys posts on this tragic accident...

I know that this story makes for some very interesting reading, and as Dave pointed out, the story can be found almost anywhere on the web at this point. I just want to point out the fact that both parties are loyal forum members. We do not wish the Forum (Our Family) to get mixed up in communications and broadcasting "news" to the world about issues that could conceivably (but hopefully not) end up in court.
 

gzl

GT Owner
Jan 27, 2010
69
Point respectfully made and taken.

Regards, and best of luck with resolution
 

gtinmyblood

GT Owner
Mark IV Lifetime
Le Mans 2010 Supporter
Feb 23, 2007
735
Mesa Az/Aspen Co
I respect and back up our moderators position on this topic. Lets get this thing resolved and move on with life.
 

BlackICE

GT Owner
Nov 2, 2005
1,416
SF Bay Area in California
I respect and back up our moderators position on this topic. Lets get this thing resolved and move on with life.

+1
 

shelbyelite

PERMANENTLY BANNED
May 10, 2007
1
One of the things I like best about this place is the way its run. Its one of the things that initially drew me towards the FORD GTs. If I wanna go argue with children about what this guy did to that guy, and jump on a band wagon that I have absolutely nothing to do with, there are plenty of boards all over the internet to do just that. I would never go up to a person and call them a "FAG", a "DOUCHE" or any other name such as that in public, so I dont see the point in doing it over the internet. If you do me wrong, you and I will handle it and if we cant, I will be sure to tell others of my experience..... But there are proper ways to do that. There is nothing wrong with posting FACTS about a bad experience you have had with someone as long as the comments are factual and they are FIRST HAND. In my opinion, the people directly involved, and also people that have had similar experiences with the parties involved, have a right to be heard. Other than that, there is no point in having an open discussion on matters such as this as it puts a dark cloud over a place that we all come to enjoy ourselves, and get away from all the BS that we have to deal with in our regular day to day life. I love this place and as long as Dave is running it, I think it will remain one of the best automotive car forums on the net. Anyone thats got a problem with it, feel free to hang out at any of the thousands of other boards where you are allowed to say anything you please. This is NOT one of those places. Anybody that disagrees, personally, I dont care and I dont think that any of the other respected members and/or sponsors on this board will care either. Just my $.02 on this as I have remained very quiet on this subject until now. No one is trying to cover anything up. No one is being "UNFAIR" about what is allowed to be posted. Dave has allowed BOTH directly involved parties to say their peace. Those are the two stories that matter. Until someone else has some FIRST HAND experience with either party, their is no point in adding fuel to a fire that is already burning out of control. For all of our sakes, lets move on and get back to the fun stuff about these cars. When a resolution is made, I assure all of you it will be posted by the directly involved parties.
 

GTdrummer

GT Owner
Mark II Lifetime
Le Mans 2010 Supporter
Mar 13, 2010
2,122
Richmond Virginia
In 27 years years of practicing law, I have represented everyone from the friend who had a dealership wreck his car on a test drive (for free) to the Big Three and some foreign car companies in multimillion dollar death cases in some of the worst places in the US. This story has unfortunately gotten way out there--to the extent that I had clients send me links to it knowing I have a GT.

All the emails I read were speculative and opinionated and no one had the facts. Heck, I don't know the facts. I would imagine both parties feel like sh$t, and the only thing that could make them feel worse is having to read a bunch posts that can do little more than inflame one side or the other.

I cannot tell you how many accident cases I have had where I was representing the car manufacturer or product manufacturer where someone through their own fault or not was maimed, killed or had members of their family killed. Folks who survived were ruined for life irrespective of what the judicial system did to them.

It is not my car nor was I the driver , so it is easy for me to say in the whole scheme of things this is not a big deal and folks will get over it. But that is the truth. This will all work out a lot better if we just sit tight on the sidelines and let it play out.
 
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Lorenzo

GT Owner
Mark II Lifetime
Dec 28, 2008
626
U.S.A.
. This will all work out a lot better if we just sit tight on the sidelines and let it play out.

I like the way you think!
 

SteveA

GT Owner/B.O.D
Mark IV Lifetime
Dec 13, 2005
3,697
Sandpoint Id
Well stated GT family.
 

w. mitty

GT Owner
Mark IV Lifetime
Sep 1, 2005
704
Well said. GTdrummer, your post reminded me of a epiphany of sorts that I had shortly after i graduated from law school. I was serving as a law clerk for a federal district judge (for the non lawyers, district court is where federal evidentiary trials occur). As I sat in court listening to the plaintiff's opening statements, I would immediately (and foolishly) begin forming opinions about the case at bar. By the time the plaintiff was done, I would often say to myself "wow, this is slam dunk case. Why did that dirty, rotten, cheatin' defendant even bother to show up? We don't need a trial, let's just have the verdict now!" However, once the defendant had a chance to present his side of story, I was chagrined at how quickly I had jumped to a bunch of unwarranted conclusions. It was nothing short of amazing to hear all of the facts and arguments that the Plaintiff conveniently left out of his presentation. This was especially true in civil cases. After going through this experience repeatedly, I finally got it through my thick head that there are two sides to every story, and that until I knew all the facts, I should keep my mind open and my yapper shut. In the present, unfortunate circumstance, and after reading the comments from both of my brethren involved, I do not have sufficient information to form an opinion. I will say, however, that both have a history of posting helpful information on the forum and, based entirely on the content of their posts, they seem to be really nice guys. Its a crappy thing that happened. Here's hoping that it gets resolved privately and amiably. One thing I AM sure of: the internet is a really lousy place to resolve private controversies. Our esteemed moderators have done a good job at avoiding making a bad situation worse...
 

06fordgt

GT
Mark II Lifetime
Le Mans 2010 Supporter
Nov 8, 2006
1,910
Toronto Canada
First off Bill I hope you are ok physically. I now emotionally it will take some time to heal. Bill has done great work for many of us here and offered great advice. He has always been there to help.
This is a very unfortunate situation for both fellows. I can imagine how Ray feels.
Now a very similar incident happened to me as well with a 200K + car. The fellow was also test driving my car at night ( that was stupid on his part), got hit from behind and the other driver took off. Now the damage was well into the 6 figures. The person has a small shop and also did not carry the insurance he maybe should have. He does have a business but is a one man band and works out of a rented shop. I got the call at 11:30 at night about what happened. I was extremely pissed as to what had happened!!
I was in the same dilemma as Ray as to insurance coverage. The problem I also had was he is the only guy who could Fix the car. He is very meticulus and knows his stuff.
The final result is that my insurance paid for the repair to the car. Good thing I had stated value on the car. It took a little prompting from one of my lawyers but they paid out in full. However they did drop my policy on this car upon 30 days notice.
It has taken the fellow along time to fix my car partly because he is a one man band and needs revenue from other sources to stay alive and also because changes, modifications and improvements over and above repairing the car were made. I have tried to make the best of a very very bad situation.
Good luck to both Bill and Ray and getting it resolved and the car fixed.