Bumper Removal, mmmm......


Gulf GT

GT Owner
Mark II Lifetime
Feb 9, 2006
1,539
California
I have struggled with removing the bumper for some time, and today I got some information that helped me make a decision. I’m keeping the bumper. Both my lawyer and my insurance company tell me that in an accident where the rear of the vehicle was struck, I would likely have no insurance coverage. Basically, you can’t go removing DOT mandated safety equipment in a car without consequences. The insurance company would look at the situation no differently than if I had removed the seat belts. If I was to have a passenger, and they were seriously injured, the insurance would deny my claim and leave me wide open for a lawsuit. In addition, my umbrella policy would also be null and void. Although the risk of the accident happening is extremely low, if it did, it could cost me tons of money. This isn’t a Camry we’re talking about, it’s an 800HP street race car, and I won’t be getting any sympathy from a jury that doesn’t make in a lifetime what I make in one year. I can’t afford to take such a risk, even if it is low. If the guy who crashed at the California Speedway last year in his Carrera GT had removed the bumper, and the car had hit the wall in the rear from spinning out, his estate would have already written a check for 5 million bucks to the passenger’s family.

In addition, if I was hurt in my own accident, I would also have no insurance coverage, medical yes, but disability no. There was even another angle thrown at me by my attorney; an accident where the people who run into the back of me get hurt; they could sue me also. I know that sounds lame, but you have to understand that my insurance company will not cover me for that lawsuit. That could also be very expensive, and I would likely have to settle it or be prepared to spend $50,000 minimum to defend it. The base problem is the insurance coverage being nullified by removing the bumper. My sound far fetched, but I didn’t get to this point in my life to allow some attorney to fillet me like fish, or screw my wife and family after I’m gone. I like my car enough with the bumper thank you very much.
 
Last edited:

ROCMAN

Big Dawg!
Mark IV Lifetime
Mar 9, 2006
1,625
USA
Great! Now I dont have to worry about removing mine!:biggrin
 

MAD IN NC

Proud Owner/ BOD blah bla
Mark IV Lifetime
Feb 14, 2006
4,219
North Carolina
Gulf GT, thanks for posting the reason'ng view. The bumper will stay!!!!!!!:cheers
 

BlackICE

GT Owner
Nov 2, 2005
1,416
SF Bay Area in California
Thanks for the info. I like the look of no bumper but it wasn't worth the pain of modifying the exhaust tips, cost etc. Now with this in mind it is out for sure.

Depending on how your policy is written you may force them to cover you, but like you said I would be a battle and you would have to foot the bill. Insurance companies first reaction to any large claim is look for reason to deny. This reasoning can also be extend to those that modified the car and making non compliant with DOT, CARB or EPA regulation. e.g the car was unsafe because it has a TT and the power level is unsafe for public road use and that was the primary cause of the accident.
 

ViperJoe

GT Owner
Mark II Lifetime
Aug 17, 2006
1,305
Washington Crossing, PA
Great post even if n/a it's to me since I like the look and function of the rear bumber and wouldn't consider removing it under any circumstsnces.
 

AZGT

GT Owner
Mark IV Lifetime
Dec 20, 2005
1,354
Scottsdale, AZ.
Didn't know they would deny, but would expect that they would go the "contributory" route just like if you are not wearing a seat belt.

Good information.
 

jamie

GT Owner
Mark II Lifetime
Sep 23, 2005
271
Virginia
I have seen both and I think it looks better with the bumper, good choice!
 

abolfaz

GT Owner
Mark II Lifetime
Jan 11, 2006
827
Coral Gables
I took the rear bumper off my car to install the CF exhaust surround. It looked good for a moment, but then it looked like something was missing. Also the thought of backing into something made me put the bumper on faster than I took it off...
 

californiacuda

GT Owner
Mark II Lifetime
Oct 21, 2005
919
The reason given for not removing the bumper (increased liability)can be used for not doing any performance upgrade. Not to be sarcastic, but it is so obvious that it almost doesn't need to be given. In our wonderfuly totally litigious legal system anybody with assests or insurance is at risk.
 

STUNTS

FORD GT OWNER & LITTLE TIMMYS DAD!
Mark IV Lifetime
Apr 5, 2006
2,438
SoCal
I'm pretty sure that my car will remain stock in its entirety..... Not even an upgrade for some more hp.... but you never know:wink
 

Gulf GT

GT Owner
Mark II Lifetime
Feb 9, 2006
1,539
California
The reason given for not removing the bumper (increased liability)can be used for not doing any performance upgrade. Not to be sarcastic, but it is so obvious that it almost doesn't need to be given. In our wonderfuly totally litigious legal system anybody with assests or insurance is at risk.

Actually this was heavily discussed with my attorney and my insurance company as well. I have the Whipple, and on and on with power upgrades. Both said there was a dramatic difference between removing the DOT mandated equipment and adding power upgrades to the car. The insurance company flatly stated that they would stand behind me no problem if my car was modified for 2000HP, even if I was found negligent. The attorney agreed, but added that if I was found negligent for anything related to the speed and HP, I would likely be sued anyway, and the power upgrades would help the opposition. But there would be one gigantic difference between removing the bumper and adding 2000 HP, my insurance company would defend me and my umbrella policy would kick in to save my ass in the worst possible scenario. He went on to say, go ahead and lower the HP down to 200HP, but remove the bumper and your toast.
 

Ed Sims

GT Owner
Mark IV Lifetime
Apr 7, 2006
7,922
NorCal
bumper stickers

I'd like to get rid of my bumper but it's plastered completely with cool bumper stickers.

Ed
 

Empty Pockets

ex-GT Owner
Mark IV Lifetime
Le Mans 2010 Supporter
Oct 18, 2006
1,362
Washington State
I'd like to get rid of my bumper but it's plastered completely with cool bumper stickers.

Ed




:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
 

californiacuda

GT Owner
Mark II Lifetime
Oct 21, 2005
919
Interesting, sorry I didn't understand more clearly. So, your insurance company will cover you if you add 200 hp more and get in an accident, but they won't cover you if you take off the bumper?

Bear with me as I write my thoughts. You gun your 200hp more powerful engine and loose control of your car going around a corner and smash into a school bus full of kids-your covered, But if your sitting at a red light and the school bus smashed into, your not covered.

Am I correct, and if so, it doesn't make sense?
 
Aug 25, 2006
4,436
Huuum

I first read this thread a few days ago and had to walk away and think about it. I then made a few phone calls and ultimately sat and had a “Cup-O-Joe” with a few associates and here is what I was told once again. I say once again because similar topics have been discussed at our round table meetings before and I wanted to make certain that something new had not been brought the table before I said anything.

There are set of mandatory requirements in order to bring a licensable mass produced vehicle to market in the USA as well as other countries and yet the requirements can and do vary drastically from one location to another; everything from glass design, wheel design, crash testing (which not too many years ago in this country had a higher “NO” damage MPH minimum) whereas today it is a marginal joke. During the course of the conversation exhaust, superchargers, yadayadayada were all chatted about. Now having been a business consultant for 30ish year’s insurance with heavy reference on umbrella policies have always been a commodity used. However having shared this personal lines insurance such as automotive is where the topic ended. It was during the course of this conversation that several generic policies were looked at. No where in any of them was there a statement of exclusion based on modifications? If there was to be such exclusion then there would also have to be those items listed that were allowed. For example if one were to simply say you can not twist or tweak your gal “period” because the vehicle is insured based on OEM design and presentation then the secondary automotive market would be shut down; fat chance of this guys as this group is well healed and interconnected throughout our political and economic infrastructure. If this day was ever seen then there would no longer be color multi bladed wiper blades (LOL), no more personal choice wheels from the likes of HRE, Iforge, Neez, etc. There would be no alternate exhausts, no Whipple’s and the list would gone on forever with one exception. This exception would be that all of these items would then have to be sold as for “off road use only” and be supported with signed affidavits making it clear that you are completely on your own. Now having shared this many companies do require such a statement to be signed so as to attempt to mitigate any exposure they might have in this litigious world and yet in the end these signed statement do not absolve the insurance company from honoring a claim; but more on that issue in a minute.

Now here is the bigger reason that the comment about rear bumper delete not being even close to a viable reason for such a concern; a rear bumper is “NOT” required on vehicles but rather an impact zone is. For example; pick up trucks do no not have to be purchased with a rear bumper because there is a designed in impact zone however most people take having a bumper as the norm and something expected. I have owned and built Hotrod’s for 30 plus years and most have no bumpers and yet all are fully insured and sadly I know of many that have required insurance companies to repair and or replace them..

Fortunately in this country; the good ol’USA there remains a modicum of “Freedom of Choice” and even with the numerous agencies that our tax dollars fund put into place to protect us from our self we are still ultimately given the ability through the process of just enough rope to hang one’s self to do as we want.

Now back to the insurance issue again; most know that insurance companies are not in the business of repairing vehicles but rather in business to make money; they are simply money managers with a twist that through the practice of prudent investing hope to have an up side nickel on the table once the relationship comes to an end. It is during this process that (as we all do to some degree) they assess their potential up and downside and then purchase market share accordingly. In the case of the automobile insure companies they determine what states they want to sell in, the number and or value of the policies they want and or are able to sell based on their financial heath, as well as the style, type, and value of vehicles to include in this process. Now most vehicles will fit neatly within the “A Typical” predefined box however every once in a while a person must be insured through another that deals with a risk less than typical such as more expensive cars, a person with poor driving record, etc.

With this having been shared; there is no insurance company that can deny coverage based on personal tweaks done to a car. If this were even slightly possible then every finance company in this country would have to create their own insurance offering (mandatory I might add) to protect their investment while the average person drives a vehicle throughout the term of the typical finance term.

Can you imagine for the moment what GMAC would say if XYZ Insurance company said when notified of a vehicle needing to be repaired; “I am sorry but the asset of yours (meaning GMAC’s) that we insured for your customer is not covered because the bumper was off the car, the wiper blades were changed, there were custom wheels on it, there were two bald tires”.

Truly there is not reason to spend anytime thinking about it because it can not happen. However what can happen is because of an evaluation during the course of processing a claim a person’s risk can be reassessed and then future cost adjusted accordingly however even this is not based solely (by law it can not be so as to eliminate variables such as the subjective question; who is the brightest bulb in the group because for sadly far too many anything more than “BASIC” transportation or a bus pass is silly whereas to other driving basic transportation or a bus pass is silly) on the individual’s activities but rather the redefined investment/risk group that the individual falls into. The purchasing of “A-Typical” insurance policy regardless of the line(s) (meaning the commodity and or service associated with it) is regulated and monitored by “BIG BROTHER” and those such as Allstate or ? are simply one of the many allowed to market and do business within a predetermined playing field as long as they (meaning the insurance companies) do so within the predefined structure. As just a few examples; how old you are, where you live, how many miles you drive, your chosen deductible amount, how long have you been a licensed driver, record of tickets, record of accidents, married or single, are you the only licensed driver in the household as recognized by the address of record, are all individual items that can and generally do get considered as you are behind the scenes made to conform to a predetermined marketing/risk box.

IMO; when it comes to twisting and tweaking your gals you all have your personal canvass to play with. Companies such as Ford have agreed to participate in what are at time extremely rigid requirements during the building of vehicles for the masses however smaller private coach builders such as Panoz, Saleen in his early days, etc do not necessarily have to conform to many of the same requirements because their production offerings are below a specific number.

Now that all of this bantering back and forth about the rear bumper has taken place let me share that for those of you that think for so much as moment that the OEM rear bumper on the GT is more than a placating item I say that you need to take all of 5 minutes and remove it and then you will better understand. It is little more than a mid body curb feeler because if “any” impact was to occur at her ass the bumper would never even be felt. IMO the reason the bumper is on the car has more to do with what ‘MOST” people expect and maybe even a behind the scenes concession that Ford made with DOT based on the fact that as for example with a pick up truck they established that any impact damage initiated at her ass would be transferred throughout the rear drive train. Let me be clear; the OEM rear bumper will not protect the back of your gal from much of anything. All of the rear bumper components might weigh 10lbs; they have no structural support or ability to transfer any significant impact energy and furthermore the two small short extensions that the rear bumper is mounted on are extremely thin wall aluminum that can be physically manipulated with your hands.

Having shared this I think that in as much as some will never tweak their gals (perfect), some will paint, mold, and modify to the extent of their dreams and pocketbook allows (also perfect), and then others that will make what they refer to as acceptable minor tweaks (such as all I did was a pulley, or only wheels, or only subwoofer relocation) supposedly never fracturing the original mold; on this last comment I have to share that I feel that this is little more than mental rationalization. You are either in or out of the water as such are wet or dry; there is no gray area. Now whether one feels that a given tweak is out of the proverbial box or not is truly a subjective and self serving assessment generally shared as the means to justify what they have or are considering doing.

As such I purchase what I can afford and then enjoy my time with them never dependant or reliant on whether another supports or likes the direction that I take and I would encourage others to consider this position and in doing so “fully” support emotionally whatever direction that another takes “even” if in your world their direction seems strange or unorthodox because in doing so you have found the ability to enjoy and live albeit somewhat vicariously through another’s dream even if only for a moment..

I would “HATE” to be awakened from my dream and find 4 blue sedans at every intersection, a line of blue sedans as I traverse the highways, blue sedans in every garage, and then the typical morning news headline being “Another Underground Group of Custom Car Owners were Arrested during yesterday’s raid resulting in even more red and black cars being impounded. When will people realize that blue sedans are all that are allowed; the days of personal choice have long since come and gone”

I think that the gals were perfectly presented from Ford and once again a heartfelt “thank you” to all that made this possible and yet I saw her as an awesome canvass when compared to my completed painting. She was likely the dream realized of another to which my adding a few brush strokes made her my dream realized too.

FYI: I have my rear bumper off and it will remain so as her ass (IMO) is simply to cool looking to cover with a bar. I look at the various race cars from days gone past and she looks like she could have been there too. Now this is being shared as my personal vision and dream and in presenting it I do not mean to or desire to make it a component of yours

All the best.

Takes care

Shadowman
 
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californiacuda

GT Owner
Mark II Lifetime
Oct 21, 2005
919
Thank you Shadowman for your excellent comments, I especially liked the issue you brought up concerning finance companies not having coverage if an insurance claim was denied. I will have to re read it again to absorb more.

Attorneys, accountants, and insurance people are taught to advise from the very conservative side of an issue to protect every body's asses, including their own. Many of the ultimate answers are moving targets based on dynamic court rulings. Often the "correct" answer today maybe not be tomorrow.
 

Gulf GT

GT Owner
Mark II Lifetime
Feb 9, 2006
1,539
California
Interesting, sorry I didn't understand more clearly. So, your insurance company will cover you if you add 200 hp more and get in an accident, but they won't cover you if you take off the bumper?

Bear with me as I write my thoughts. You gun your 200hp more powerful engine and loose control of your car going around a corner and smash into a school bus full of kids-your covered, But if your sitting at a red light and the school bus smashed into, your not covered.

Am I correct, and if so, it doesn't make sense?

No, I meant you can "lower" your car to 200HP from 550HP.

Hey guys, obviously you should do what you think is best for you. I am only offering up my opinion on the subject, and it wouldn't be the first time I was called "fiscally" conservative. With that being said, my statements make perfect sense to me and my attorney.
 

analogdesigner

GT Owner
Mark IV Lifetime
Nov 15, 2005
950
San Clemente, CA USA
really needs to go

Guys,

Wow, this is a high voltage subject! I want to remove my rear bumber badly as this piece does little and really needs to go. The USA has turned into a police state and I can not afford a Robert Shapiro grade of lawyer if some jackass rear ends me! What to do?...
 

SteveA

GT Owner/B.O.D
Mark IV Lifetime
Dec 13, 2005
3,697
Sandpoint Id
Huuum

I first read this thread a few days ago and had to walk away and think about it. I then made a few phone calls and ultimately sat and had a “Cup-O-Joe” with a few associates and here is what I was told once again. I say once again because similar topics have been discussed at our round table meetings before and I wanted to make certain that something new had not been brought the table before I said anything.

There are set of mandatory requirements in order to bring a licensable mass produced vehicle to market in the USA as well as other countries and yet the requirements can and do vary drastically from one location to another; everything from glass design, wheel design, crash testing (which not too many years ago in this country had a higher “NO” damage MPH minimum) whereas today it is a marginal joke. During the course of the conversation exhaust, superchargers, yadayadayada were all chatted about. Now having been a business consultant for 30ish year’s insurance with heavy reference on umbrella policies have always been a commodity used. However having shared this personal lines insurance such as automotive is where the topic ended. It was during the course of this conversation that several generic policies were looked at. No where in any of them was there a statement of exclusion based on modifications? If there was to be such exclusion then there would also have to be those items listed that were allowed. For example if one were to simply say you can not twist or tweak your gal “period” because the vehicle is insured based on OEM design and presentation then the secondary automotive market would be shut down; fat chance of this guys as this group is well healed and interconnected throughout our political and economic infrastructure. If this day was ever seen then there would no longer be color multi bladed wiper blades (LOL), no more personal choice wheels from the likes of HRE, Iforge, Neez, etc. There would be no alternate exhausts, no Whipple’s and the list would gone on forever with one exception. This exception would be that all of these items would then have to be sold as for “off road use only” and be supported with signed affidavits making it clear that you are completely on your own. Now having shared this many companies do require such a statement to be signed so as to attempt to mitigate any exposure they might have in this litigious world and yet in the end these signed statement do not absolve the insurance company from honoring a claim; but more on that issue in a minute.

Now here is the bigger reason that the comment about rear bumper delete not being even close to a viable reason for such a concern; a rear bumper is “NOT” required on vehicles but rather an impact zone is. For example; pick up trucks do no not have to be purchased with a rear bumper because there is a designed in impact zone however most people take having a bumper as the norm and something expected. I have owned and built Hotrod’s for 30 plus years and most have no bumpers and yet all are fully insured and sadly I know of many that have required insurance companies to repair and or replace them..

Fortunately in this country; the good ol’USA there remains a modicum of “Freedom of Choice” and even with the numerous agencies that our tax dollars fund put into place to protect us from our self we are still ultimately given the ability through the process of just enough rope to hang one’s self to do as we want.

Now back to the insurance issue again; most know that insurance companies are not in the business of repairing vehicles but rather in business to make money; they are simply money managers with a twist that through the practice of prudent investing hope to have an up side nickel on the table once the relationship comes to an end. It is during this process that (as we all do to some degree) they assess their potential up and downside and then purchase market share accordingly. In the case of the automobile insure companies they determine what states they want to sell in, the number and or value of the policies they want and or are able to sell based on their financial heath, as well as the style, type, and value of vehicles to include in this process. Now most vehicles will fit neatly within the “A Typical” predefined box however every once in a while a person must be insured through another that deals with a risk less than typical such as more expensive cars, a person with poor driving record, etc.

With this having been shared; there is no insurance company that can deny coverage based on personal tweaks done to a car. If this were even slightly possible then every finance company in this country would have to create their own insurance offering (mandatory I might add) to protect their investment while the average person drives a vehicle throughout the term of the typical finance term.

Can you imagine for the moment what GMAC would say if XYZ Insurance company said when notified of a vehicle needing to be repaired; “I am sorry but the asset of yours (meaning GMAC’s) that we insured for your customer is not covered because the bumper was off the car, the wiper blades were changed, there were custom wheels on it, there were two bald tires”.

Truly there is not reason to spend anytime thinking about it because it can not happen. However what can happen is because of an evaluation during the course of processing a claim a person’s risk can be reassessed and then future cost adjusted accordingly however even this is not based solely (by law it can not be so as to eliminate variables such as the subjective question; who is the brightest bulb in the group because for sadly far too many anything more than “BASIC” transportation or a bus pass is silly whereas to other driving basic transportation or a bus pass is silly) on the individual’s activities but rather the redefined investment/risk group that the individual falls into. The purchasing of “A-Typical” insurance policy regardless of the line(s) (meaning the commodity and or service associated with it) is regulated and monitored by “BIG BROTHER” and those such as Allstate or ? are simply one of the many allowed to market and do business within a predetermined playing field as long as they (meaning the insurance companies) do so within the predefined structure. As just a few examples; how old you are, where you live, how many miles you drive, your chosen deductible amount, how long have you been a licensed driver, record of tickets, record of accidents, married or single, are you the only licensed driver in the household as recognized by the address of record, are all individual items that can and generally do get considered as you are behind the scenes made to conform to a predetermined marketing/risk box.

IMO; when it comes to twisting and tweaking your gals you all have your personal canvass to play with. Companies such as Ford have agreed to participate in what are at time extremely rigid requirements during the building of vehicles for the masses however smaller private coach builders such as Panoz, Saleen in his early days, etc do not necessarily have to conform to many of the same requirements because their production offerings are below a specific number.

Now that all of this bantering back and forth about the rear bumper has taken place let me share that for those of you that think for so much as moment that the OEM rear bumper on the GT is more than a placating item I say that you need to take all of 5 minutes and remove it and then you will better understand. It is little more than a mid body curb feeler because if “any” impact was to occur at her ass the bumper would never even be felt. IMO the reason the bumper is on the car has more to do with what ‘MOST” people expect and maybe even a behind the scenes concession that Ford made with DOT based on the fact that as for example with a pick up truck they established that any impact damage initiated at her ass would be transferred throughout the rear drive train. Let me be clear; the OEM rear bumper will not protect the back of your gal from much of anything. All of the rear bumper components might weigh 10lbs; they have no structural support or ability to transfer any significant impact energy and furthermore the two small short extensions that the rear bumper is mounted on are extremely thin wall aluminum that can be physically manipulated with your hands.

Having shared this I think that in as much as some will never tweak their gals (perfect), some will paint, mold, and modify to the extent of their dreams and pocketbook allows (also perfect), and then others that will make what they refer to as acceptable minor tweaks (such as all I did was a pulley, or only wheels, or only subwoofer relocation) supposedly never fracturing the original mold; on this last comment I have to share that I feel that this is little more than mental rationalization. You are either in or out of the water as such are wet or dry; there is no gray area. Now whether one feels that a given tweak is out of the proverbial box or not is truly a subjective and self serving assessment generally shared as the means to justify what they have or are considering doing.

As such I purchase what I can afford and then enjoy my time with them never dependant or reliant on whether another supports or likes the direction that I take and I would encourage others to consider this position and in doing so “fully” support emotionally whatever direction that another takes “even” if in your world their direction seems strange or unorthodox because in doing so you have found the ability to enjoy and live albeit somewhat vicariously through another’s dream even if only for a moment..

I would “HATE” to be awakened from my dream and find 4 blue sedans at every intersection, a line of blue sedans as I traverse the highways, blue sedans in every garage, and then the typical morning news headline being “Another Underground Group of Custom Car Owners were Arrested during yesterday’s raid resulting in even more red and black cars being impounded. When will people realize that blue sedans are all that are allowed; the days of personal choice have long since come and gone”

I think that the gals were perfectly presented from Ford and once again a heartfelt “thank you” to all that made this possible and yet I saw her as an awesome canvass when compared to my completed painting. She was likely the dream realized of another to which my adding a few brush strokes made her my dream realized too.

FYI: I have my rear bumper off and it will remain so as her ass (IMO) is simply to cool looking to cover with a bar. I look at the various race cars from days gone past and she looks like she could have been there too. Now this is being shared as my personal vision and dream and in presenting it I do not mean to or desire to make it a component of yours

All the best.

Takes care

Shadowman

VERY well put, all of it. My agent told me much of the same.

However you forgot to mention one very important thing. Aesthetically speaking, a bumper hanging off the rear of the GT is about as desirable as another 20lbs would be hanging off the back of Halle Berrys rump.:lol
 

bgb27

Active member
Jan 26, 2007
42
However you forgot to mention one very important thing. Aesthetically speaking, a bumper hanging off the rear of the GT is about as desirable as another 20lbs would be hanging off the back of Halle Berrys rump.:lol

that would be one very very big rump. :eek