So.... anybody ready to start talking about alternative gauges for the FGT?
- Thread starter mardyn
- Start date
BlackICE
GT Owner
I don't think anyone really knows the answer to why the gauges are failing. Ford is working on it and that is our best chance for a definitive answer.
Assertion like, no failures with brand X battery are meaningless, since the sample size is so small for brand X, while 99%+ are using the Optima battery.
I betcha no one has had a gauge failure if they always have driven their cars using this type of shoes too!
What does that prove?
Assertion like, no failures with brand X battery are meaningless, since the sample size is so small for brand X, while 99%+ are using the Optima battery.
I betcha no one has had a gauge failure if they always have driven their cars using this type of shoes too!
What does that prove?
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H
HHGT
Guest
I too doubt the validity of the bad /low battery as cause of failure... if the battery has enough reserve to spin/start the engine..
it certainly should have enough to initialize the gauges. I suspect that the cause is actually poor quality & overly fragile design from the gauge mfg
used in an otherwise robust vehicle.
What also bothers me is we (GT owners with failed gauges) seem to be caught somewhere in the middle... between Ford & Autometer with neither
very willing to step up and invest time/energy/money in figuring out a problem on car that's out of production for 5 years.
Again, I'm not sure what to do at this point... all I know for sure is that I have a very expensive car sitting out there that I can
no longer safely drive because of the dash failures.
With that said, I need a new battery for my gate opener and I think the GT battery will fit nicely in that application and a new
Die Hard will find it's way to my GT.
I'd especially like to thank those of you who are working behind the scenes with Ford/SVT/Autometer to get some movement on
this particular issue that has plagued so many of us.
Thanks for reading and responding to this thread.
mardyn
it certainly should have enough to initialize the gauges. I suspect that the cause is actually poor quality & overly fragile design from the gauge mfg
used in an otherwise robust vehicle.
What also bothers me is we (GT owners with failed gauges) seem to be caught somewhere in the middle... between Ford & Autometer with neither
very willing to step up and invest time/energy/money in figuring out a problem on car that's out of production for 5 years.
Again, I'm not sure what to do at this point... all I know for sure is that I have a very expensive car sitting out there that I can
no longer safely drive because of the dash failures.
With that said, I need a new battery for my gate opener and I think the GT battery will fit nicely in that application and a new
Die Hard will find it's way to my GT.
I'd especially like to thank those of you who are working behind the scenes with Ford/SVT/Autometer to get some movement on
this particular issue that has plagued so many of us.
Thanks for reading and responding to this thread.
mardyn
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ViperJoe
GT Owner
Maybe I'm just getting old but the gauge problems I've encountered got me thinking the unthinkable.
Bill Briley
GT Owner
JJayB
GT Owner
I'm a new GT owner but have been following this thread thinking this is isolated in seeing some of the posts, when WHAM my boost gauge went out this week. I check the service records and it seems that the volt meter was replaced in '09. Two gauge failures in the same car and I've owned over 50 cars and had one failure in all of them! In a previous life I worked on the development of Avionics for aircraft and have trouble shot many more complex problems than this but that was years ago but the basics don't change.
In reviewing the posts it appears that all the gauges that failed are tach, volt, boost, speedo and temp. All of which are receive their voltage from a common source the gauge control module which receives the signal from the power train control module (PCM).
Secondly, I wanted to find out if the gauges could be repaired so I contacted North Hollywood Speedometer who has done custom work for me in the past on special projects and I wanted their take on the electronic Autometer/Ford proprietary gauges. Some on this forum may have spoken to them so my call wasn't the first. They were happy to talk to me and they are well aware of the problem. My idea was to see if they had a fix. What I gleaned I thought I'd share.
The electronic movement is a four pole chinese built unit and its....well not very good in fact the tech said it's "cheap" and not repairable. Also Auto-meter will not speak to anyone because it's a Ford proprietary gauge even when North Hollywood offered to buy a thousand units. Strike one.
Like others I'm not going to replace an $800 gauge without knowing the cause of failure . I mentioned to the tech I only had the repair manual and not a wiring diagram but it seems that the only gauges failing are those receiving power from the 1246 (LG/Rd) line and the gauge control module. The 1246 sends greater than 10 volts when the ignition is switched on. This is important because it pretty much eliminates the theory that the battery or the trickle charger is responsible. I say what if we by pass the gauge control module and see if the gauge works. The tech, Kevin says bingo that's the first place he'd focus on. He says he's too busy to do this on the side now but he would need an FGT for a weekend to see if using a by pass circuit would still allow the signal to be picked up by the gauge. If so he could use the guts out of a better quality gauge and use the case and face or the FGT to retain the factory look.
In my opinion it's highly unlikely Ford/SVT is going to come up with a fix unless the business economics dictate (read class action lawsuit). I'd prefer to use their engineering prowess to find a fix. The problem is if it is the spec gauges being faulty, they will fight that. Appreciate any comments.
Jimmy
In reviewing the posts it appears that all the gauges that failed are tach, volt, boost, speedo and temp. All of which are receive their voltage from a common source the gauge control module which receives the signal from the power train control module (PCM).
Secondly, I wanted to find out if the gauges could be repaired so I contacted North Hollywood Speedometer who has done custom work for me in the past on special projects and I wanted their take on the electronic Autometer/Ford proprietary gauges. Some on this forum may have spoken to them so my call wasn't the first. They were happy to talk to me and they are well aware of the problem. My idea was to see if they had a fix. What I gleaned I thought I'd share.
The electronic movement is a four pole chinese built unit and its....well not very good in fact the tech said it's "cheap" and not repairable. Also Auto-meter will not speak to anyone because it's a Ford proprietary gauge even when North Hollywood offered to buy a thousand units. Strike one.
Like others I'm not going to replace an $800 gauge without knowing the cause of failure . I mentioned to the tech I only had the repair manual and not a wiring diagram but it seems that the only gauges failing are those receiving power from the 1246 (LG/Rd) line and the gauge control module. The 1246 sends greater than 10 volts when the ignition is switched on. This is important because it pretty much eliminates the theory that the battery or the trickle charger is responsible. I say what if we by pass the gauge control module and see if the gauge works. The tech, Kevin says bingo that's the first place he'd focus on. He says he's too busy to do this on the side now but he would need an FGT for a weekend to see if using a by pass circuit would still allow the signal to be picked up by the gauge. If so he could use the guts out of a better quality gauge and use the case and face or the FGT to retain the factory look.
In my opinion it's highly unlikely Ford/SVT is going to come up with a fix unless the business economics dictate (read class action lawsuit). I'd prefer to use their engineering prowess to find a fix. The problem is if it is the spec gauges being faulty, they will fight that. Appreciate any comments.
Jimmy
Bad gauges are bad gauges. Stick a new one in its place and the new one works (at least for awhile). Therefore, the gauges ARE getting a signal from the GCM.
I spoke to Kevin a couple of times early on regarding the gauge issue... 18-24 months ago. I don't think there's a solution down this path although I would love to be wrong.
shelbyelite
PERMANENTLY BANNED
- May 10, 2007
- 1
From reading your post, You seem to think the gas gauge and oil pressure gauge is not included in these problems. FYI, I have replaced 2 bad gas gauges and atleast one bad oil pressure gauge in ford GTs. Next theory....
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Kayvan
GT Owner
- Jul 13, 2006
- 4,782
They gave us 7 huge analog gauges!!
Its like a 747 cockpit in there
They didn't wimp out like F430, gallardo, murci, R8, etc with their bloated uni- binnacle, 1-2 gas, temp guages.
Love the gauges.
Its like a 747 cockpit in there
They didn't wimp out like F430, gallardo, murci, R8, etc with their bloated uni- binnacle, 1-2 gas, temp guages.
Love the gauges.
Attachments
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JJayB
GT Owner
Shelbyelite,
I agree the gauges are all problematic so that is issue number one. My question was more, will a better quality gauge solve the problem within the OEM engineered wiring without carving up the wiring loom. Too many times in electronics the simple answer is the not the long term solution. I enjoy the idieooscyracizes in working to find the root cause like many on the board some just say put in a new gauge. I probably will do that but not before satisfying my curiosity. I think there are multiple causes, not just the gauges.
Jimmy
I agree the gauges are all problematic so that is issue number one. My question was more, will a better quality gauge solve the problem within the OEM engineered wiring without carving up the wiring loom. Too many times in electronics the simple answer is the not the long term solution. I enjoy the idieooscyracizes in working to find the root cause like many on the board some just say put in a new gauge. I probably will do that but not before satisfying my curiosity. I think there are multiple causes, not just the gauges.
Jimmy
viva gt
GT Owner
here is an email my friend at ford sent me. don't know if this helps
"Was reading about gauges on your GT forum
While the cause of gauge failure in still unknown, what those guys should be doing is getting the tech at their dealer to fill out a GCR (Global Concern Report) through the OASIS information system. It doesn’t matter how many miles are on the vehicle
This report goes directly to the engineer responsible for that component. It is only when the engineer has enough reports & can prove an unsatisfactory failure rate that Ford will allocate $ to rectify the problem.
Bottom line is : NO GCR’s= NO Problems, LOTS of GCR’s=Problem
I personally think it’s a voltage spike killing the gauges, EMP from the starter or radio amplifier.
We saw similar gauge/ module failures on 90’s E series vans from EMP"
"Was reading about gauges on your GT forum
While the cause of gauge failure in still unknown, what those guys should be doing is getting the tech at their dealer to fill out a GCR (Global Concern Report) through the OASIS information system. It doesn’t matter how many miles are on the vehicle
This report goes directly to the engineer responsible for that component. It is only when the engineer has enough reports & can prove an unsatisfactory failure rate that Ford will allocate $ to rectify the problem.
Bottom line is : NO GCR’s= NO Problems, LOTS of GCR’s=Problem
I personally think it’s a voltage spike killing the gauges, EMP from the starter or radio amplifier.
We saw similar gauge/ module failures on 90’s E series vans from EMP"
fjpikul
GT Owner
The engineer directly repsonsible for the electrical system is on the case. All of the gauges that were turned in directly by us went straight to him as I understand. We met him at Rally I in Detroit.
laniakea
GT Owner
- Dec 11, 2009
- 64
I too have a problem with my gas gauge. Every time my 18 year old takes the car out when he's home from college the very next time I get in the car it reads Empty and wont move until I go to the gas station?
Gulf GT
GT Owner
2112
Blue/white 06'
viva gt
GT Owner
that is good that the engineer has the gauges, but have those that have had gauge failures gone to their local ford dealer to speak to their tech to fill out a GCR. these forms need to be filled out so they can be sent to ford. also a copy should be retained by the car owner. there should be action if there is enough failures that are well documented and the percentage of failure is high enough.
cobra498
GT Owner
The Ford engineer will not be able to solve this problem, the engineer who designed the software and hardware at Autometer is the key to solving the problem. I looked at one gauge and found that the microprocessor (Cypress Semiconductor CY8C26233) was not clocking. The supply regulator was normal (5.02v) so it may be a problem within the micro oscillator. I also agree that it is probably related to a voltage spike that the gauge board cannot suppress. Analysis of a problem like this without a circuit diagram or micro assembly code is next to impossible. I would bet that Autometer knows what the problem is but why would they want to disclose a design flaw that could have a negative effect on them. The gauges all appear to use a common circuit board with unique faces and software which would support the multiple failures we are seeing.
The key is to get Autometer to step up to the problem and solve it once and for all.
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